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Mike Blais
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Re: Afghanistan - 3rd Battalion, The Royal 22nd Regiment. 07-08
« Reply #90 on: September 17, 2007, 05:11:58 AM »

If Canada withdraws from Kandahar, Taliban will run rampant, mullah says

By GRAEME SMITH

Monday, September 17, 2007 – Page A1

KANDAHAR, AFGHANISTAN -- Canada must not be scared away from Kandahar because Afghan forces wouldn't be capable of stopping the Taliban from overwhelming government towns, one of the region's most prominent tribal elders says.

Mullah Naqib is not the first Afghan leader who has pleaded for Canadian troops to stay, but his emotional words are the most pointed example so far of the deep worry among local allies about what will happen after the Canadian commitment expires in 18 months.

"They should not be scared," Mr. Naqib said in an interview.

The elder's opinions carry weight in Kandahar, where he rose to prominence during the fight against Soviet occupation and later served as provincial governor. Mr. Naqib's band of Alokozai tribesmen has been a pillar of support for every regime in Kandahar for the past 15 years, including the Taliban and the current Afghan government.

The fact that Canada has lost 70 soldiers in Afghanistan is a sad reality, Mr. Naqib said, but it's a small sacrifice when compared to the daily casualties among Afghan security forces, and the bloody consequences of withdrawal.

"You're talking about 70 dead," Mr. Naqib said. "How many [Afghan] police have been killed in the last month? Two hundred, probably."

The grey-bearded former warlord has risked his own life for the sake of President Hamid Karzai's government. His tribe holds informal control of Arghandab, a fertile district north of Kandahar, and the insurgents are pushing hard to open up Arghandab as a route for attacking the city. Mr. Naqib says the Taliban have launched two serious thrusts at his turf this year, and a researcher for CTV News visiting a neighbouring district last week found Taliban fighters threatening another attack.

Mr. Naqib has resisted the Taliban so far, as he has generally done since breaking his alliance with them in 2001. Rumours spread in recent years that Mr. Naqib appeases the insurgents by allowing them safe houses in his district, where they receive medical treatment, but Canadian officials shrug off the whispers and say he has been an important bulwark against the insurgents. His district stands as a rare success story in the south, a patch of relative peace and prosperity.

The Taliban apparently showed their displeasure with Mr. Naqib in early March, when a roadside bomb targeted his vehicle. He survived, but one of his sons and an assistant were killed and two other sons suffered serious injuries. He remained in India for months of treatment, and still needs a cane to walk.

"The Canadians should not leave," he said. "If they leave after 18 months, why did they come here anyway? We need their help."

Canadian military leaders have expressed hope that they can train and equip the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police to take over the lead role in counterinsurgency operations before February, 2009.

Mr. Naqib scoffed at the idea.

"The locations the government holds now will be captured by the Taliban," he said. "They can't train the ANA and ANP in 18 months."

He emphasized how grateful Afghans feel for Canada's assistance so far, but added that people feel puzzled about the prospect of them leaving so quickly after arriving. If the Canadians thought it was worth risking their lives to help Afghanistan last year, he asked, what has changed? Is the cause less worthy now?

"It's like they just came here for joking," he said.

The old warrior paused and looked down at the prayer beads in his powerful hands.

"Before they came to Afghanistan, they knew some soldiers would die. You cannot control this land without losing people. It's sad, but you have to sacrifice. This is fighting."

The timing of Canada's exit should depend on whether Afghan forces are ready to hold their ground against the Taliban, Mr. Naqib said. That not only requires funding, training and equipment for the Afghans, he said, but also requires Canada to speed up its development assistance in the south, winning support from locals and undermining the insurgents.

"The most important thing is to help the 95 per cent of people here who are poor, give them food and help with agriculture. Right now, civilians are helping the Taliban because they can't feed themselves."
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Re: Afghanistan - 3rd Battalion, The Royal 22nd Regiment. 07-08
« Reply #91 on: September 17, 2007, 11:08:43 AM »

Well, maybe thats the toe hold Nato needs there.. in Mr. Naqibs district, which is also strategic to the Taliban....i also agree that ther would be a bloodbath should Nato leave... and that means us... our guys... we went to do an unpopular job and have done miracles there.. but we still need NATO to step to the plate as a unified body and provide the trained troops to be able to do the job... OR .. the contries there now, mainly us, the Brits , Dutch and US along with a couple smaller countries [ who some how manage to get to the sharp point too].  put in the additional 30000 needed to get it done....well, thats what i think... so far we are in a dilemma due to lack of trops at the sharp end... what else can be done?? The other countries instead of adding combat troops are actually threatening to leave  , even their "safe " areas....any other ideas out there???  ranrad
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Re: Afghanistan - 3rd Battalion, The Royal 22nd Regiment. 07-08
« Reply #92 on: September 18, 2007, 01:33:32 PM »

Afghanistan

GRAEME SMITH

Globe and Mail Update

September 18, 2007 at 3:44 PM EDT

Kabul — Afghanistan will descend into bloody chaos if Canadian troops and other foreign soldiers are withdrawn too quickly, President Hamid Karzai said today, in a forceful plea for Canadian soldiers to continue fighting after 2009.

Evoking the civil wars that wracked Afghanistan in the early 1990s, killing tens of thousands of people, Mr. Karzai said his country could slip into a similarly dark period if the Canadians withdraw as scheduled in 18 months.

“Afghanistan will fall back into anarchy,” he said. “Anarchy will bring back safe havens to terrorists, among other things, and terrorists will then hurt you back there in Canada and the United States. Simple as that.”


Mr. Karzai said he is aware of Canadians' debate about their role in his country, and seemed eager to contradict some ideas raised in the discussion. Canadian officials have claimed that Afghan forces could be ready to take over the lead role in protecting Kandahar by the time the Canadian mandate expires in February 2009.

But the Afghan president bluntly disagreed with that assessment.

“The presence of Canada is needed until Afghanistan is able to defend itself, and that day is not going to be in 2009,” he said.

The president said towns and district centres in Kandahar would fall to the Taliban in the event of a Canadian withdrawal. In response to a question, he agreed that the scenario would look similar to what happened from 1992 to 1996, what many Afghans describe as the worst part of their history, when factional warfare left the countryside divided into countless rival fiefdoms.

“Exactly that will happen, exactly,” Mr. Karzai said.

“If you leave prematurely, before we can defend ourselves in terms of our own abilities, government, institutions, and all associated factors, Afghanistan will fall back.”

Rather than emphasize the human cost of withdrawal, Mr. Karzai repeatedly came back to the theme of Canadian security relating to the fight against extremism in Afghanistan.

“Leaving Afghanistan alone now will bring back all the evils that were here,” he said. “We know they're still around — look at the situation in Pakistan, look at the situation in Algeria, the suicide bombs there.”

He continued: “You can look around. You can see the enemy is not yet finished, is not yet defeated. Therefore it's our responsibility, all of us, to continue to work to defeat terrorism. And we cannot defeat terrorism unless we secure Afghanistan. If we do not, it will become a base for them again.”
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Re: Afghanistan - 3rd Battalion, The Royal 22nd Regiment. 07-08
« Reply #93 on: September 18, 2007, 10:55:18 PM »

Of course the bad guys arent finished.. and wont likely be until Nato gets off the political crap debates and onto the military where they have, or should have expertise...ranrad
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Re: Afghanistan - 3rd Battalion, The Royal 22nd Regiment. 07-08
« Reply #94 on: September 19, 2007, 06:25:24 AM »

Elsewhere...

September 19, 2007
Suicide bomber wounds 8 police in southern Afghanistan's Helmand province


KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (AP) - A suicide bomber on foot blew himself up next to a police vehicle Wednesday in southern Afghanistan, wounding eight policemen, an official said.

The attack in the Garmsir district of Helmand province left three of the wounded officers in critical condition, said provincial police chief Mohammad Hussein Andiwal.

Helmand has been the frontline of battles between international forces and the Taliban in recent months and has seen some of the deadliest fighting in the last two years. It is also the world's largest opium-producing area.

More than 4,300 people - mostly militants - have died in insurgency-related violence this year.

In central Wardak province, a joint operation between Afghan forces and their intelligence service left three militants dead, including a senior member of the militant group Hezb-i Islami, said a statement from the Defence Ministry. Three other insurgents were wounded and four were arrested in the operation in Nirkh district, it said.
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Re: Afghanistan - 3rd Battalion, The Royal 22nd Regiment. 07-08
« Reply #95 on: September 19, 2007, 06:30:51 AM »

NATO launches new Afghan operation

Updated Wed. Sep. 19 2007 7:51 AM ET

The Associated Press

KABUL, Afghanistan -- NATO forces launched a new military operation Wednesday in Afghanistan's most violent southern province, while the alliance said it was investigating a shipment of weapons intercepted near the border with Iran this month.

About 2,500 Afghan and NATO troops began the operation in the Gereshk region of Helmand province, the site of the fiercest battles this year and the world's largest opium-producing region.

NATO's International Security Assistance Force said the troops would conduct military "security and stabilization" operations in the upper Gereshk Valley, but provided no other details.

Meanwhile, a NATO spokesman said ISAF was investigating the source of a weapons shipment recently intercepted by troops in Farah province near the Iranian border.

"Although we know that it came from the geographic area of Iran, there is no definitive indication that it came from the Iranian government. We're still evaluating what is contained in that shipment," spokesman Maj. Charles Anthony said.

A Washington Post report Sunday said the shipment seized Sept. 6 was being sent to the Taliban and included armor-piercing bombs similar to those that have been used in roadside bombs against foreign troops in Iraq. NATO previously intercepted two shipments of weapons said to be from Iran in April and May.

NATO's top general in Afghanistan, Gen. Dan McNeill, has said there is no evidence linking the Iranian government to the shipments.

Last month, President Bush said he thinks Iran is playing a destabilizing role in Afghanistan, but Afghan President Hamid Karzai has said Iran is playing a helpful role in the country.

During a visit to Kabul last month, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said he has "serious doubts" that his country is supplying weapons to Taliban insurgents, and called Afghanistan a "brotherly nation" whose stability is paramount for the region.

Insurgency-related violence in Afghanistan has killed more than 4,300 people this year, mostly militants, according to an Associated Press tally of figures from Western and Afghan officials.

On Wednesday, a suicide bomb attack in the Garmsir district of Helmand left eight Afghan police officers wounded, including three who were in critical condition, said provincial police chief Mohammad Hussein Andiwal.

In other violence, Taliban militants in southern Zasbul province attacked and killed three Afghan security guards protecting a construction project Wednesday in Qalat, said Gulab Shah Alikhail, spokesman for the governor.

A joint operation Tuesday between Afghan forces and the Afghan intelligence service left three militants dead in Wardak province, including a senior member of the militant group Hezb-i Islami, which is led by renegade former Afghan Prime Minister Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, the Defense Ministry said. Three insurgents were wounded, and four were arrested in the operation in Nirkh district.

Also, two militants were killed and three arrested in a joint operation by Afghan police and coalition forces Tuesday night in Spin Ghar district of Nangarhar province, the Interior Ministry said.
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Re: Afghanistan - 3rd Battalion, The Royal 22nd Regiment. 07-08
« Reply #96 on: September 19, 2007, 09:39:27 AM »

Hmmmm, well, i am skeptical... its an age old tradition, for want of a better word for two great " allies" to meet , smile , shake hands .. whilst one of the two drives a knife into the others back....so, yes, i am skeptical...these weapons are coming from somewhere.....ranrad
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Re: Afghanistan - 3rd Battalion, The Royal 22nd Regiment. 07-08
« Reply #97 on: September 19, 2007, 03:03:50 PM »

Taliban accused of using kids as shields


The Associated Press

Updated: Wed. Sep. 19 2007 11:09 AM ET

KABUL, Afghanistan — The U.S.-led coalition accused the Taliban of using children as human shields during a battle in southern Afghanistan on Wednesday, while NATO said it was investigating a shipment of weapons intercepted near the border with Iran this month.

The fighting in Uruzgan province began when more than 20 insurgents armed with machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and mortars attacked a joint Afghan and coalition patrol Wednesday morning, the coalition said in a statement.

As a coalition aircraft prepared to bomb the site, "coalition forces as well as the aircraft identified several insurgents in one compound using children as human shields," it said. Ground forces and the aircraft withheld fire to avoid injuring the children. It was impossible to independently verify the coalition allegations.

The troops fought Taliban trying to flee the compound, and more than a dozen suspected militants were killed, the coalition said. There were no reports of casualties to troops or civilians.

International forces have come under heavy criticism for causing civilian casualties during airstrikes on suspected militant locations. President Hamid Karzai has pleaded with foreign troops to coordinate more closely with their Afghan counterparts to prevent villagers from being hurt, and the number of civilian casualties has dropped recently.

Also Wednesday, a NATO spokesman said the coalition was investigating a weapons shipment recently intercepted by troops in Farah province near the Iranian border.

"Although we know that it came from the geographic area of Iran, there is no definitive indication that it came from the Iranian government. We're still evaluating what is contained in that shipment," spokesman Maj. Charles Anthony said.

A Washington Post report Sunday said the shipment seized Sept. 6 was being sent to the Taliban and included armor-piercing bombs similar to those that have been used in against foreign troops in Iraq. International troops intercepted two other shipments said to be from Iran earlier in the year.

NATO's top general in Afghanistan, Gen. Dan McNeill, has said there is no evidence linking the Iranian government to the shipments.

Last month, President Bush accused Iran of playing a destabilizing role in Afghanistan. But Karzai has said Iran's role is helpful.

During a visit to Kabul last month, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said he has "serious doubts" that his country is supplying weapons to Taliban insurgents. He called Afghanistan a "brotherly nation" whose stability is paramount for the region.

Karzai met with several former warlords-turned-politicians Wednesday and they agreed the government should hold peace talks with the Taliban, the president's office said.

NATO's top civilian envoy to Afghanistan, Daan Everts, said the alliance was "very interested" in seeing peace negotiations come to fruition and there appeared to be "growing interest" on the part of the Taliban and fighters from the militant group Hezb-i-Islami.

The possibility of peace talks gained momentum earlier this month when Karzai reiterated his long-held position that the government is willing to engage the Taliban diplomatically. But the Taliban leadership has set conditions the West is unlikely to accept -- that U.S. and NATO forces first leave the country and that Shariah, a harshly conservative brand of Islamic law, must prevail in Afghanistan.

About 2,500 Afghan and NATO troops launched a new military operation Wednesday in Afghanistan's most violent southern province. The operation is in the Gereshk region of Helmand province, the site of the fiercest battles this year and the world's largest opium-producing region.

Insurgency-related violence has killed more than 4,500 people this year, including 3,100 militants and 600 civilians, according to an Associated Press tally of figures from Western and Afghan officials.

The U.S. Embassy in Kabul warned Americans that suicide bomb attacks were expected to increase during the holy month of Ramadan.

In the latest violence, a suicide bomber in Kabul blew himself up on the road leading to the U.S. air base in Bagram, the Interior Ministry said. No one else was hurt.

In southern Zabul province, Taliban militants killed three security guards protecting a construction project in Qalat, said Gulab Shah Alikhail, spokesman for the governor.

© 2007 CTVglobemedia All Rights Reserved.
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Re: Afghanistan - 3rd Battalion, The Royal 22nd Regiment. 07-08
« Reply #98 on: September 19, 2007, 06:08:07 PM »

On the homefront....

Quebecers heckle foreign minister over Afghan mission

Mike Blanchfield
CanWest News Service

Wednesday, September 19, 2007


MONTREAL - It was a baptism of fire for Canada's new foreign minister, Maxime Bernier, with almost a dozen angry protesters shouting him down as he tried to sell his government's military involvement in Afghanistan.

Bernier, however, rolled with the chaotic scene, calling the interruptions "an expression of democracy."

The aim of Wednesday evening's speech was to try to persuade fellow Quebecers to stay the course and "finish the job" in Afghanistan, even though opposition parties have called for a withdrawal of troops somewhere between now and February 2009.

"I know that you are proud and responsible people, people of your word," the cabinet minister from Quebec's Beauce riding said in his first address on the issue that is expected to dominate his tenure as Canada's top diplomat. "Quebecers finish the job they have started when they have made a commitment to do so."

Speaking to an international symposium of Afghanistan experts, Bernier also noted that "Canada cannot, without losing all credibility in the international arena, simply go back on its word and abandon such a crucial mission."

"We cannot simply abandon the Afghan people to their fate; to do so would jeopardize all the development work and security building that has been done on the ground."

Prime Minister Stephen Harper promoted 44-year-old Bernier to foreign affairs, moving Peter MacKay over to defence, in a cabinet shuffle last month that was designed in large measure to help the government bolster its message about the Afghan mission among reluctant Quebecers.

Quebec's Royal 22nd Regiment now forms the backbone of the Canada's 2,500 soldiers currently stationed in Kandahar, and has suffered three fatalities since being deployed there last month.

MacKay was in the Netherlands Wednesday to meet with Dutch defence minister Eimert van Middelkoop and to urge other countries in the NATO alliance to do more to find troops for the Afghan mission. The Dutch, who have 2,000 troops in the violent south of Afghanistan, are mulling a pullout in 11 months.

"NATO has to step up to the plate," MacKay said.

Fearing a domino effect of NATO countries withdrawing, Afghan President Hamid Karzai has implored Canada to keep its soldiers in Afghanistan after its February 2009 commitment expires, warning his country would be plunged into anarchy if foreign troops leave.

The Harper government has proposed an exit strategy under which NATO would train enough army and police officers to take over Afghanistan's security, but Karzai cast doubt on that scenario.

Karzai also found himself at odds with Bernier on one of the only issues Canada's new foreign minister has addressed publicly since assuming his new portfolio: whether negotiations with the Taliban are advisable to end the current insurgency.

After a controversial agreement between South Korea and the Taliban saw the release of 21 kidnapped Christian aid workers, Bernier issued a statement condemning the deal, adding: "We do not negotiate with terrorists for any reason."

That contrasted with what Karzai told Canadian journalists summoned to his Kabul palace on Tuesday for an extraordinary plea to Canada's ambivalent population: "The road to peace is ultimately, no doubt, through negotiations."

NDP Leader Jack Layton said he does not believe Canadians could be easily sold on the mission, simply by changing the government's messengers through a cabinet shuffle.

"I think it's sad that one has to turn to a sales job when we're talking about war," Layton said in an interview.

Layton urged the Conservatives to soften their hard line on negotiations, saying Canada could take the lead in bringing the warring parties to the table and finding a diplomatic solution to the conflict.

"We clearly cannot continue on with a military focus," he said.

"We're suggesting that Canada should play a lead role in the creation of and the pursuit of a comprehensive peace process with a focus on accomplishing a ceasefire, and negotiations, and really assist the Afghan people."

The NDP has called for an immediate withdrawal of Canadian troops from Afghanistan, and is now basking in the glory of winning only its second seat ever in Quebec, after Thomas Mulcair took the Liberal stronghold of Outremont in Monday's byelections.

Karzai spoke directly to the concerns of Quebecers on Tuesday, saying:

"My message to Quebec is that their sons and daughters are accomplishing a very important task, not only for Afghanistan, but for Canada as well."

Karzai and Harper are expected to meet on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly in New York next week, where the Afghan leader is expected to repeat the same pleas while arguing to world leaders that progress has been made in rebuilding his country in the six years since its former Taliban rulers were deposed.
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Re: Afghanistan - 3rd Battalion, The Royal 22nd Regiment. 07-08
« Reply #99 on: September 20, 2007, 06:06:06 AM »

Ghostly Afghan army  TheStar.com - comment - Ghostly Afghan army
September 20, 2007

Afghan President Hamid Karzai worries that his country will "fall back into anarchy" if Canada pulls out its troops in 2009. That was his message to a group of Canadian journalists this week. It coincides with a blitz by Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government to shore up sagging public support to "finish the job" there.

But why should the departure of 2,300 Canadian troops from Kandahar region after a three-year stint trigger a crisis? Why isn't the Afghan National Army prepared to step in? When, if ever, will it be? If Karzai is so worried, why is it taking so long to build up the army?

And if the stakes are so high, why won't more of our North Atlantic Treaty Organization partners share the risks in Kandahar with us?

These are questions that should be raised in Parliament when Harper brings down the throne speech on Oct. 16. While Canada's $1.2 billion aid program ensures that we will support Afghans over the longer haul, we are being urged to re-enlist for frontline combat duty without having enough information to make a sensible decision.

The Karzai government claims to have 37,000 troops and aims for 70,000 in a year or two. The Americans insist the Afghan army is "a combat-experienced force." And NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer has promised that "effective Afghan security forces would be gradually taking control" by next spring, a full year before Canada's mission draws to an end.

So why all the pressure on Canada to hang in there?

Because despite these cheery assessments, the Afghan army is nowhere close to being a credible fighting machine. Five years into its rebuilding drive, the Afghan military can field no more than 20,000 troops at any given time. They are woefully ill-equipped. They rely on the U.S. and NATO for air cover, artillery support, engineering, communications, medical help and logistics. There is a high desertion rate.

Afghan Defence Minister Abdul Rahim Wardak says it would take up to 200,000 "well-trained and equipped" troops with "mobility and firepower" to defend the country. That is 10 times the current number. Meanwhile the army can't field one brigade of 2,300 to replace us.

Perhaps that is why retired U.S. General Barry McCaffrey has estimated it will take until the year 2020, more than a decade, to turn the Afghan military into anything resembling a real army.

Is this what Harper and Karzai have in mind, when they talk of "finishing the job" and averting "anarchy"? Are Canadians being pressed into an open-ended mission, while the Afghans rearm at a leisurely pace and our allies refuse to help? It would be good to know.
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Re: Afghanistan - 3rd Battalion, The Royal 22nd Regiment. 07-08
« Reply #100 on: September 20, 2007, 09:12:38 AM »

Well ,there we have it.Up to 2020 to have the Afghans ready to do their own defence. So , do they expect the few countries at the sharp point to stay there until then?? And where is the top brass from Nato in all this discussion? The switch is still not being attended to...everyone is floundering with NO direction from Nato HQ? We can not effectively debate this in our Parliament without Nato AT THE SWITCH.... lets get with it Nato ...ranrad
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Re: Afghanistan - 3rd Battalion, The Royal 22nd Regiment. 07-08
« Reply #101 on: September 20, 2007, 06:16:27 PM »

No charges to be laid against military doctor

Updated Thu. Sep. 20 2007 7:35 PM ET

Murray Brewster, The Canadian Press

OTTAWA -- Military police have decided not to charge a Canadian doctor who published a graphic description of the last moments of a wounded soldier's life in Afghanistan.

The National Investigative Service (NIS) looked at whether Dr. Kevin Patterson broke any laws in an article written last summer about the operating room death of Cpl. Kevin Megeney, a 25-year-old reservist from Stellarton, N.S.

"There was no evidence to support criminal or service charges under the National Defence Act,'' said Capt. Cindi Tessier, a spokeswoman for the NIS.

The article, which appeared in the July-August issue of Mother Jones magazine, resulted in a storm of criticism from the friends and family of the soldier, who said the account was tasteless and violated medical ethics standards.

The Defence Department launched two investigatons into the article in which Patterson described in graphic detail the wounds suffered by Megeney, who was shot in the chest in his tent at Kandahar Airfield, the main NATO base in southern Afghanistan.

While deciding no charges will be laid, the military has yet to decide whether Patterson, who worked as a doctor at the airfield's coalition medical facility -- known as the Role 3 -- breached any ethical guidelines.

The review by the military's medical services branch will determine, among other things, whether he is allowed to work for the military ever again under contract.

"There are a whole bunch of options that could come out of the medical group's investigation,'' said Tessier.

The shooting of Megeney -- on March 6, 2007 --  is also still under investigation by military police officers and it's not clear when it will be completed, she said.

Even though he was essentially a civilian contractor, Patterson was subject to the National Defence Act and to the military code of service discipline while overseas. He could have faced criminal charges or even administrative sanctions, such the docking of pay, just like soldiers.

Since returning from Kandahar, his contract with the military has expired.

Patterson's 7,000 word memoir recounts the six weeks he spent at the Kandahar military base, the climax of which was Megeney's shooting.

His vivid description of the young's soldier's massive bleeding wound and the desperate, ultimately unsuccessful effort to save him angered not only the family, but Defence Minister Peter MacKay, who comes from the same home town and attended the funeral
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ranrad
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Re: Afghanistan - 3rd Battalion, The Royal 22nd Regiment. 07-08
« Reply #102 on: September 20, 2007, 07:54:56 PM »

Well, maybe not criminal in the legal sense, but ,to me, criminal in the ethical sense... where in the name of God was his basic decency?Huh Shame on you Doctor... no, double triple shame... ranrad
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A ROYAL CANADIAN "NEVER PASSES A FAULT"