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Topic: Agent Orange Gagetown (Read 7662 times)
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Young Ken
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THE CANADIAN PRESS
January 23, 2008
NDP accuse federal Conservatives of breaking promises concerning
Agent Orange
20 hours ago
FREDERICTON - More than 40 years after Agent Orange was sprayed on a
New Brunswick military base, the defoliant program is still creating
political fallout for the current federal government.
Peter Stoffer, the New Democrats' veterans affairs critic, said
Wednesday the Conservatives are being deceitful about the spray
program.
Stoffer said in an interview that when the Conservatives were in
opposition, they called for a public inquiry into defoliant spraying
at Canadian Forces Base Gagetown between 1956 and 1984.
"What we're asking (Veterans Affairs Minister Greg Thompson) to do
now is do exactly what he said he was going to do, which is call a
public inquiry into the defoliant spraying at Gagetown between 1956
and 1984," Stoffer said.
"He and (Prime Minister Stephen) Harper said they were going to do
all these things. They formed government and they failed to meet
their own commitments."
Stoffer said either Thompson had facts to back his call for an
inquiry, or was just using the demand for political opportunism.
Thompson was quick to fire back at Stoffer.
"When is the last time Peter Stoffer and his party stood up in
support of our veterans, our men and women in the military, or our
international obligations?" Thompson said in a statement.
"I urge you to check their record. It's a sad record."
Thompson said the New Democrats voted against funding for a veterans
ombudsman and a veterans bill of rights.
As for an inquiry, Thompson said his government relied on the
findings of an inquiry launched by the former Liberal government, and
conducted by former New Brunswick health minister Dr. Dennis Furlong.
That inquiry found no links to health problems beyond a few scattered
cases relating to Agent Orange testing at Gagetown in 1966 and '67.
As many as 4,500 people - veterans and civilians - qualify for a one-
time, $20,000 payment from the federal government.
To qualify, people must have an illness associated with Agent Orange
exposure and have worked at, trained at or been posted at Gagetown,
or lived within five kilometres of the base, during the two years it
was tested.
As of this week, the Department of Veterans Affairs has received
1,210 completed applications, of which 518 have been approved.
So far, 195 did not meet the eligibility criteria and the remainder
are being processed.
Jim Cadger, a spokesman for the lobby group Agent Orange Alert, said
the department has not made it easy for people to prove they were
residents of the area, especially if they were children at the time.
He said claimants are being asked to produce deeds, water or utility
bills, or other documents as proof, and some frontline staff at the
Veterans Affairs aren't as helpful as they could be.
Cadger said after many calls he finally learned that department staff
have phone books from 1966 and '67 and can easily help applicants
prove their case.
"Veterans Affairs has failed to educate its own staff to help those
people," he said.
But Thompson said there are many ways for people to prove they were
in the designated area.
He said there is plenty of information at the Provincial Archives,
including school records.
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Young Ken
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London Free Press
GOVERNMENT
Happy New Year, Ottawa
With each passing year, month and day, Mr. Harper's Conservative
government is claiming more and more ownership and responsibility for
the Gagetown toxic chemical defoliant victim's deplorable conditions.
Not only did the past Conservative governments contribute to the
actual spraying of toxic chemicals (containing both Dioxin and HCB)
while in power, they are contributing now - possibly because of the
direct involvement of their refusal to call for a Public Inquiry.
Much of the media have chosen to accept Greg Thompson's totally
inadequate compensation package as the end of the story, and have
even written stories claiming that one in four (1 in 4) claimants are
being rejected. they are somehow forgetting that only 1 in every 100
victims were ever eligible in the first place, leaving only 75 in a
1,000 even being recognized as victims. It must further be mentioned
that if there were only 4,500 eligible victims (according to Ottawa),
there should be only very few people affected. I really have to ask
why we have over 90% claiming compensation.
Not only is 90% causalities for 7 days of US Military spraying
unacceptable, but it is also unbelievable. And leaves no other
conclusion then that the 29 years of Canadian chemical spraying
contributed much more then just dead leaves to the chemical soup that
we call Gagetown.
It is more then time to call for a proper study, for non-military
soil sampling, for a proper victims 'hands on' health study, and for
a full Public and Judicial Inquiry.
Mr. Harper, in my opinion, in just under two years your party has
taken on the complete responsibility for the hundreds of thousands
Gagetown victims. You have done to them exactly what every government
before you has done; yet we still haven't been kissed.
POSTED BY: Cpl. Kenneth H. Young CD (Ret'd)., Nanaimo, BC
POSTED ON: January 17, 2008
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Young Ken
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> (This is from the NDP's homepage under Top Stories. KF) > > http://www.ndp.ca/page/6124> > Thu 24 Jan 2008 > OROMOCTO, N.B. - NDP Veterans Affairs Critic Peter Stoffer (Sackville- > Eastern Shore) urged Stephen Harper's Conservatives to strengthen its > Agent Orange compensation package and make good on their promise to > call a public inquiry. > > "The Conservative government has flip-flopped on the Agent Orange > issue," said Stoffer. "While they were in Opposition, they pushed for > a public inquiry and a full compensation package for those exposed to > defoliant spraying at CFB Gagetown from 1956 -1984. They have not > delivered on these commitments and have broken their promises to hard- > working veterans and civilians." > > Stoffer joined with representatives of the Agent Orange Association > of Canada (AOAC) to discuss the way forward for veterans and > civilians not eligible for the Agent Orange ex gratia payment and > those seeking more answers through a public inquiry. > > "The one time payment the government has offered to Agent Orange > victims is astoundingly low,"" said Stoffer. "The payment does not > adequately compensate veterans and civilians for the high health care > costs they may incur over their lifetime. The Conservatives must meet > their original promise to provide full compensation to those exposed > to defoliant spraying at CFB Gagetown for almost thirty years." > > Stoffer will also continue to push the federal government to call for > a public inquiry into the handling of the Agent Orange issue and the > defoliant sprayings at the base from 1956-1984. > > "I am outraged by the callousness of this Conservative government," > said Stoffer. "If the Minister of Veterans Affairs can't follow > through on the promises he made while he was in Opposition, then he > should resign. He has not made life any easier or fairer for these > victims." > |
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Young Ken
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In reply to the NDP Defence critic, Peter Stoffer and his statements on
Gagetown, or more correctly in reply to Veterans Affairs Minister, Greg
Thompson's cries of how proud he is over his Compensation Package for
Gagetown Chemicals.
First Greg Thompson has no right to singularly make the Base Gagetown and
Area Fact Finding Project (BGAFFP) an Inquiry after the fact when it never
had the ability to inquire anyone to attend, had no hearings, was directed
by the (accused) guilty party and in the end was not even allowed to make
recommendations.
Also the Conservative Party during the election promised FULL, FAIR and
IMMEDIATE Compensation to ALL Gagetown Victims of spraying from 1956 through
1984 and later from 1956 through 2004. Stephen Harper also offered to have
anyone who believed that they were affected free medical Testing for the
chemicals involved.
What we received instead was 1% at best of the government suggested possible
Victims even eligible, an amount (a one time $20,000 dollars) which in many
cases doesn't even cover 1 year of medication, now over two years later has
only issues a little over 500 (approximately one tenth of one percent of the
victims)so called compassionate checks out of a Government stated possible
450,000 victims of Gagetown, compensation for all of 7 days out of the 28 or
48 years of spraying that was actually done, the only persons that have been
tested are a bunch of Ottawa MP's and all eligible must have been diagnosed
but had not died before PM Stephen Harper ascended the thrown.
To this record Greg Thompson has been quoted as being proud but in my
opinion Mr. Thompson either has severe memory loss or is self delusional but
in either case shouldn't be in charge of hundreds of thousands of Canadian
Veterans health and welfare.
We need a full Public and Judicial Inquiry with powers of a court which is
totally independent of Ottawa and the Government of Canada who have for the
past 50 years, repeatedly demonstrated their reluctance to either allow the
truth out or to care for the victims which they (Ottawa and the chemical
industry) created.
Cpl. Kenneth H. Young CD (Ret'd).
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Young Ken
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January 24, 2008 Toronto Sun Poppy politics By GREG WESTON John Manley's otherwise brutally frank assessment of the dismal situation facing Canada and other countries fighting in Afghanistan, curiously glosses over one of the most serious and intractable enemies of the entire effort: Opium. This week's controversial report by a panel of experts headed by the former Liberal cabinet minister acknowledges only that "the opium trade is a complicating factor in Afghan security, and it is both a result of violent instability and a contributor to it. "Opium profits flow to the Taliban, to criminal elements and to corrupt government officials," the Manley report notes. "Coherent counter-narcotics strategies need to be adopted by all relevant agencies." Talk about a problem understated, and a solution easier said than done. According to the United Nations authority on drugs and crime, the poppy fields of Afghanistan now produce a stunning 93% of the world's heroin. Writing in the Washington Post this week, former U.S. ambassador to the UN, Richard Holbrooke, calls the Afghan narcotics trade "probably the largest single-country drug production since 19th -century China." Afghan government officials, he says, "including some with close ties to the presidency," are protecting the drug trade and profiting from it." In financial terms, Holbrooke estimates the Afghan opium trade currently equals about 50% of the country's official gross domestic product. In other words, Canadian forces are currently fighting to bring order and stability to a country in which more than a third of the entire economy is controlled by drug lords and corrupt government officials supporting the opium biz. While it is impossible to know exactly how much drug money is financing the Taliban insurgency that is killing Canadian troops, experts agree the cash flowing from the poppy fields is more than enough to keep the war going for years, if not decades, to come. The question is obviously, what to do about it? Holbrooke notes the U.S. is spending about $1 billion a year on counter-narcotics programs in Afghanistan, yet, the opium harvest in 2007 actually grew by almost 30% over the previous year to a staggering 8,200 tons. The whole expensive U.S. effort, Holbrooke says, "may be the single most ineffective program in the history of American foreign policy. "It's not just a waste of money. It actually strengthens the Taliban and al-Qaida, as well as criminal elements within Afghanistan." The Manley report recommends offering "effective economic provisions to induce would-be poppy farmers and middlemen to prefer and find alternative lines of work." But Holbrooke says the "alternative livelihoods" strategy has been tried elsewhere with no success, and is even less likely to work in Afghanistan. "Poppies are an easy crop to grow, and are far more valuable than any other product that can be grown in the rocky, remote soil of Afghanistan. "It will take years to create the networks of roads, markets and lucrative crops that would induce farmers to switch." As usual, George Bush has a novel idea -- namely, herbicide bombing. Apparently he told Afghanistan's president Hamid Karzai last year: "I'm a spray man myself." But Holbrooke cautions that any such poppy-eradication programs would only create a backlash among Afghans against both the local government and Western forces, and "serve as a recruitment device for the Taliban." Uprooting the poppy trade, he argues, will be impossible without weeding out corruption in the Afghan government and police forces. "To be sure, breaking the narco-state in Afghanistan is essential, or all else will fail," Holbrooke says. "But it will take years." Something to consider in the coming debate over the Manley report, and how long Canadian troops should remain in Afghanistan. http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Weston_Greg/2008/01/24/pf-4790815.html |
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Young Ken
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Hi Ken, Hope this is what you were after for the RCR Board. On January 24th,2008, the Agent Orange Association of Canada held a press conference at the Royal Canadian Legion in Oromocto. The Guest speaker was MP Peter Stoffer, Veteran Critic for the New Democratic Party of Canada. Also addressing the audience was Bill Gerdson, V.P. of the Association and Marilynn Kirchgessener, a very active member of the Association. There was an excellent turnout as well as media from CBC, Global, CBC Radio and many others. Mr. Stoffer strongly addressed Mr. Thompson and Mr. Harper's promises during the election of 2006 and how they have flip-flopped once they became government. Some examples of what they said follows: Excerpts from 2005 Hansard Reports: Opposition MP Greg Thompson’s words in the House: The House sat for 114 days from January 31st to November 28th in 2005. I have shown the page # where the quote is located in the full transcript of the 2005 Hansard Report. In this summary, Greg Thompson, as Opposition MP asked for: - A public inquiry 4 times - An emergency debate 1 time - referred to the FFP as a PR exercise 4 times “The government knows the facts. When is it going to act and compensate all victims, not just some?” Quote: #(1) Page 12 “…the minister still denies the cause and effect. In fact, he ignores his own information. The record will show that 300,000 gallons of defoliant were sprayed on Camp Gagetown in the period of which we are speaking. He continues to ignore medical evidence.” (2) Page 20 “They are suggesting that in the new studies they are going to come up with, these ongoing studies, nothing new is going to be found.” (3) Page 20 “How can the minister claim any legitimacy on this file when his officials have already predetermined the outcome?” (4) Page 23 “I seek an emergency debate on the use of chemical sprays, specifically defoliants, used at Canadian Forces Base Gagetown from 1956 to 1984.” (5) Page 24 “The government has neglected these people and their communities and has not taken responsibility for this tragedy. The effects of these deadly chemical compounds have lingered and will continue to linger for decades.” (6) Page 24 “The devastation continues to this day. They simply linger in the ground and in the water supply for decades. “ (7) Page 24 “Only a public inquiry will bring out the complete story, all the facts and a level of transparency which so far has been missing…. It is simply about righting a wrong.” (  Page 24 “…the only place where that debate can happen is in the House of Commons.” (9) Page 24 “When the Minister of National Defence talks about a limited test area, he fails to mention the broader spray program of those years where they used agent orange and agent purple over 4,000 acres and hundreds of gallons of the defoliant in those same years that he selectively refers to as the test period.” (10) Page 27 “DND confirmed an in-house investigation would take place, but it would be restricted to a small scale test area in 1966-67. Would the public interest not be best served with an independent public inquiry, removed from the influence of senior politicians in Ottawa, an inquiry that would focus on the entire spray period program?” (11) Page 30 “…in June I asked the Government of Canada to conduct a public inquiry into the herbicidal spraying program at CFB Gagetown from 1956 to 1984….. I said that the public inquiry should have the authority to make recommendations for compensation of all persons affected, both civilian and military.” (12) Page 32 “These people have been abused by the government. As I said, the government is into a public relations exercise, nothing more and nothing less.” (13) Page 32 “…this public relations exercise…” (14) Page 33 “…the United States veterans affairs department recognizes 37 diseases with a direct linkage between the spraying of herbicides and cancer.” “We are asking the Government of Canada to have a public inquiry so that Canadians can see exactly what the Government of Canada should do, could do, and will do.” (16) Page 33 “…the government is engaged in a public relations exercise. It is as simple as that.” (17) Page 34 “The government has been hiding on this issue. Pure and simple, this is a public relations exercise to get it through to the next election.” (18) Page 34 He is what Mr. Thompson stated after being elected as government: Excerpts from 2006 Hansard Reports: MP Greg Thompson’s words in the House: This is the Conservative’s first session in power and the House was only in session for 97 days (3 months) from April 3rd to December 13th, during 2006. I am also including quotes from Mrs. Betty Hinton (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs, CPC) as she spoke in the House on Thompson’s behalf quite a bit when he was absent: Hon. Greg Thompson: “We are working very carefully to ensure that our plan is a good plan as opposed to the one that the Liberals had on hepatitis C which still has not been clarified and is still in the courts. We are not going to allow that to happen. Our plan will be consistent with good government and fairness to all victims in terms of the exposure to agent orange.” (1) Page 3 Mrs. Betty Hinton (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs, CPC): “The Government of Canada does not intend to wait for the resolution from the class action suits.” (2) Page 4 Mrs. Betty Hinton (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs, CPC): “…I will say it as clear as I can. The Government of Canada does not intend to wait for the resolution of the class action suit. As promised, we will deliver.” (3) Page 5 Mrs. Betty Hinton (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs, CPC): “…We have kept our promise to put government on a path to real accountability and restore Canadians' faith in their government. We will keep our promise to respond to concerns raised by members of the Canadian Forces, veterans and area residents about the health effects of defoliants used at CFB Gagetown. The Government of Canada will not wait for the resolution of the class action suit to provide that response. Veterans Affairs Canada has taken the lead role with regard to compensation issues.” (4) Page 8 “…The fact-finding exercise led by former New Brunswick health minister, Dr. Dennis Furlong, is continuing.” (5) Page 8 “…nothing has been overlooked in pulling together evidence to support veterans' claims. When we weigh that evidence, the benefit of the doubt is being applied to ensure fairness.: (6) Page 9 “The difference between the previous government and this government is that we are going to do what we say. The government will keep its promise.” (7) Page 9 “We are ensuring that any new evidence, which may add to their applications, is included….We are not waiting for the completion of the class action suit.” ( Page 9 Hon. Greg Thompson: “…the position that his party and his government took for 13 years and beyond which was simply to deny until they die….We are going to deliver on our commitment, as we always do. We have a track record of delivering on our commitments.” (9) Page 11 Hon. Greg Thompson: “I think we have a pretty good record of dealing with veterans issues on this side of the House in the time that we have been in office….We made a commitment on this and we will honor that commitment.” (10) Page 16 Mr. Stoffer made it known that the FFM/BGAFFP set-up was not an "inquiry", as Thompson referred to it in today's article, but an "investigation",an information gathering set-up only. Mr. Stoffertalked about how the government only addressed the 7 days the Americans sprayed and not the 28 years that DND sprayed. He criticized everything that Harper and Thompson said they'd do and didn't. Mr. Stoffer agrees with the position of the Agent Orange Assoc. that only a full public judicial inquiry will bring out the true facts of this tragedy and what the governments have been hiding from the veterans and the general public for over 40 years. Mr. Stoffer stated he will continue to press for an inquiry in the House of Commons and will continue to fight for the other benefits not being granted to veterans. Bill and Marilynn reassured the audience that the Association will also continue to lobby for an inquiry and help anybody that requires assistance in joining the class-action lawsuit or applying for the 20k compensation package. These two issues are separate and if you receive the 20k compensation; you can still join the class-action. The Agent Orange Association will never let this issue die without bringing full discovery and accountability to those that allowed this countries soldiers and loved ones be poisoned by their own Government. Bill Gerd'son CD V.P. Agent Orange Association of Canada "We Will Be Known By The Tracks We Left Behind." "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell |
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ranrad
Ron [Andy] Andrews
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Yes guys and gals , dont turn down the $20,000.. you are entitled to that and that is about the only thing the gov did right with this , so far... they did not place in a clause which recipients had to sign,, you can be in the class action suit as well...so at least get what you are entitled to for now, and let the suit do its job , separately...ranrad
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Young Ken
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I guess this is just more "Misspoken" Ottawa "Misinformation" to "Mislead" the general public about Gagetown.
This document or the run down on the 1966 US Defoliant spray testing done at CFB Gagetown which was; prepared by Major W.O. Taylor, CLO, although not very damaging in itself, never the less leaves many questions to be answered.
Taken From Said Document:
2. Use diesel oil only as a diluent rather than 80/20 water/diesel oil, and reduce mixed volume applied from five gallons per acre to one or two gallons per acre. The diesel oil as diluent should give a better effect where rainy weather can be anticipated soon after application.
End;
It must be noted that this seems to indicate that Canada was using an 80/20, water/diesel oil mixture in its spray program or at least 20% of what was sprayed in Gagetown was actually diesel oil.
In my opinion it seems a bit more then strange to spray diesel fuel over the forested areas to prevent forest fires, which is one of the most persistent stories we are told when we ask why the spraying was done in the first place.
The second thing I noted was that the US was actually recommending that we cut back on the amounts which Canada was using (Spraying in CFB Gagetown) from 5 gallons to one or two gallons per acre, indicating that we (the Canadian Military) were using as much as 500% the required amounts for brush control and in my opinion as much as 500% per acre more then the US Military chemical experts were using in Vietnam.
No matter if you agree with my personal opinion or not or if you come to the same conclusions as I did, it never the less opens up room for doubt as to many of the responses we have been receiving from Ottawa and leaves many unanswered questions which only a full Public Inquiry could get to the bottom of.
**********************
Another little tid-bit found in yet another Government document #A0098385 shown below;
Taken From Said Document:
Agriculture Canada only ever registered one product containing 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T for aerial application - and it was a 1:1 mixture (50/50 would assume only concentrated active ingredients were present - the active ingredients in the Canadian registered product were diluted). PCP#7885 was registered for use from 1961 to 1967. The files on 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T from the period in question have been retrieved.
End;
This document was prepared by Jason Flint Head, Office of Policy and Strategic Advice, Pest Management Regulatory Agency, in response to questions from Berthiaume.HTforces.gc.ca and was in reply to an email received from: Herbicide Usage (Health Canada/PMRA)
Ottawa has steadfastly claimed that except for the 7 days of US Military chemical testing done in 66 and 67, to have only used registered chemicals in its defoliation program in CFB Gagetown. Yet according to DND's own document titled "Overview of Herbicide Spray Program 1956 - 1984," it clearly indicates that a 50/50 mix of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T were used in 1956 and 1957, well before any such product was in fact registered for aerial application in Canada and worse yet that the chemical 2,4,5-T (the dioxin culprit)was sprayed by itself or at least 200% higher Dioxin levels then Agent Orange ever contained, in 1960 and 61 as well as having been mixed with Ammate in 1958.
This document also indicates that the registered product was in fact diluted when there is absolutely no indication that what was used in Gagetown was.
Again questions arise that could only possibly be answered by a full Public Inquiry.
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Ottawa continues to steadfastly claim that they never sprayed Agents, Orange, White, Purple and in fact except for the US 66-67 tests had never used any of the Rainbow herbicides here in Canada. Facts are that this is technically true, Canada only used a 50/50 mix of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T and later Tordon 101 and/or 10K which the US Military later in History, in Vietnam for quick identification purposes nick-named Agent Orange, White, Purple and a bunch of other colors and were identified by the colored strips painted on the barrels containing the defoliant chemicals.
The Question is, weather a 50/50 mix of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T is in fact Agent Orange and if Tordon 101 is Agent White? Technically no but the chemicals called Agent Orange is a 50/50 mix of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T and Agent White is Tordon 101 or Tordon 10K.
Ottawa has been playing with words and semantics for over 50 years as Canada loving Veterans and their descendants have died and still continue to die from the CFB Gagetown Chemical defoliant testing mistakes.
The truth is that Dioxin and HCB are the chemicals which are killing the Victims and it matters little if it came from a drum which had a painted orange or white stripe around it or not,
Only a full Public and Judicial Inquiry will answer the so many questions that at this time remain unanswered.
Cpl. Kenneth H. Young CD (Ret'd).
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Young Ken
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The Misspoken and Misprinted Misinformation about CFB Gagetown.
Ottawa by its own admission is riddled with misinformation and misspoken facts. The art of politics is in knowing where the line is drawn, when the misspoken is not even close enough to the truth to fool anyone but the press, who like good little lap dogs, print the spoken word, with little or no regard for the truth.
Greg Thompson quoted as having implied that he was following the recommendations of the Gagetown Inquiry blah, blah, blah, is so far from the truth that in my opinion it sticks out as a down right blatant, planned and calculated lie to deceive the Canadian and World public at large and a complete betrayal of the Veterans he is supposed to represent.
First the BGAFFP never supplied any suggestions or recommendation as they were not allowed under their extremely limited mandate. Secondly it was never meant to be an Inquiry, was never given the powers of an Inquiry and as Mr. Thompson himself so elegantly put it in public on at least three occasions, was nothing more then a Liberal exercise in Public relations.
For the Media to further perpetuate these (to be fair and consistent with Conservative openly admitted practices) misspoken (wink, wink... nudge, nudge,) statements is nothing short of deliberately misleading the public and insulting the intelligence of their readers.
Cpl. Kenneth H. Young CD (Ret'd).
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Young Ken
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Ottawa MP's, which country do you work for?
It is hard for this old soldier to visualize my Canadian Government and the
MP's in Ottawa that I voted for, ranting and raving for the past week in the
House of Commons about Prisoners of War, insurgents, terrorists and the
Taliban who would like nothing better then to kill our brave people in
uniform in Afghanistan.
Politics, nothing but politics, all hoping to gain a few points in the
polls, they demand rights, compassion and understanding for foreign soldiers
wile ignoring their own soldiers who have been medically tortured for as
much as 50 years after being sprayed with chemicals in Gagetown which they
wouldn't dare use on the Taliban's poppy fields because it would be an out
right War Crime.
In my opinion just how compassionate the Gagetown compensation package is
and its real purpose becomes very clear when you realize that a goodly
portion of the eligible recipients, just happen to reside (go figure) in
Greg Thompson's riding.
Ottawa has been treating the Afghan people in general and the Taliban in
particular as if they were the Canadian Voter. Come next election all
political parties will get the same consideration that they have been giving
us and when they ask for donations and/or our votes, we will direct them to
the Afghan POW's.
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? ranrad
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