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ranrad
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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown
« Reply #210 on: October 02, 2007, 11:26:43 PM »
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Yes, i agree  Ken , if one gives a vote to someone else other than anoffending party, that DOES make two votes...2 million makes a 4 million vote difference....ranrad
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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown
« Reply #211 on: October 03, 2007, 11:06:15 AM »
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I also vote in every election. I just will not vote to support the likes of this government.
I echo the words of Ken. Get out and vote during all elections.
BJ
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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown
« Reply #212 on: October 04, 2007, 10:26:13 AM »
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Well, maybe this country will go to the polls in the fall and vote in a whole different gaggle of geese...and both major parties may be on the trash heap to reconsider their ideals... they are out of touch...so how can they hope to govern??   ranrad
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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown(Ottawa’s Gagetown Bait and switch is working)
« Reply #213 on: October 04, 2007, 10:39:59 AM »
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Ottawa’s Gagetown Bait and switch is working.


If Veterans Affairs Minister Greg Thompson’s compensation package didn’t do much for many of the affected victims of Gagetown, in my opinion it did do what Ottawa designed it to do, that being take the heat off of the Gagetown issue. The media has in the days since the Package was announced spent more time on the 66 and 67 US, 2 and ½ barrel spraying and all but ignored the 6,500 barrels and over 2 million pounds of Identically contaminated chemicals which Canada used on their own soldiers from 1956 through 1984.

Ottawa and now the media has focused on the dioxin, 2% of contaminates sprayed Wile totally forgetting the other 98% of contaminants containing Hexachlorobenzene (HCB). The soil samples taken at CFB Gagetown didn’t center on HCB, the reporting and health studies seemed to only address dioxin and even the medical conditions acceptable for the Ottawa Compensation package are only Dioxin related.

Although I will admit that any compensation package is infinitely better then what any of the victims have received for the past 50 or so years, it is for me difficult to be happy for the possible 4,500 wile there may be as many as 345,000 victims, when 2 and ½ barrels are highlighted instead of the 6,000 and an additional 2.038 million pounds and where Ottawa as well as the compensation package, focuses on 7 days in an admitted 28 year defoliation program.

We keep hearing that the chemicals which Canada sprayed were registered at the time of spraying but on reflection of this statement (made by all together too many Ottawa MP’s) it crossed my mind that if you were shot with a registered fire arm, would you be any less dead and if the person who shot you was to claim that the fire arm was registered at the time of the shooting, would that be an acceptable defense?

Ottawa has to step up to the plate and take responsibility for the chemicals that they registered which in my opinion should never have been unleashed on the Canadian Public.

Just one more little bit of information, farmers, home owners, Canadian companies and most of the public chose to use these chemicals even after the rumors were circulation about the health consequences but Soldiers their families and many civilians around Base Gagetown were never asked, they were never told and until 2005 were never even informed.

Cpl. Kenneth H. Young CD (Ret'd).
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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown(Appointment of Judges needs to be reviewed )
« Reply #214 on: October 04, 2007, 10:43:32 AM »
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Appointment of Judges needs to be reviewed for Government cases.

After the resent ruling by a Judge in the Tainted Blood case, there are
many Canadians including some Gagetown Toxic Chemical Victims left
wondering if there is any Government Appointed Judge who will rule in
favour of the general public and against the Government or their
employees.

When the Government or their employees seem to be involved with almost
every travesty against the Canadian Public, It might be time to start
thinking about a voted in judicial (including Judges) group to handle
cases involving the Government to in my opinion, eliminate any question
of favoritism or in effect, "not biting the hand of those who appointed
you to Judge."

Cpl. Kenneth H. Young CD (Ret'd).



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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown (A Gagetown Thanksgiving)
« Reply #215 on: October 08, 2007, 03:39:19 PM »
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A Gagetown Thanksgiving

Thanksgiving has once again come and gone and for most of the victims
of Gagetown I guess we have lots to be thankful for. I mean we are
still alive to be thankful in the first place. The problem comes when
altogether too many of the victims sit down for Thanksgiving dinner,
give thanks and then family members begin to count the missing.

Most times there are too many personal and children's medical
problems that often we have little or no time or energy to think of
our departed loved ones. At times like Thanksgiving, Christmas,
Easter and Family get together', it all comes un-expectedly and un-
wanted crashing back, smacking many in the face, spoiling whatever
happiness there was at the family gathering.

Ottawa just sits back and watches even when in my opinion there is
little doubt that they are the cause, wash their hands and walk away,
heading out to their own family celebrations.

Maybe the Thanks in Thanksgiving should be from all Canadians to the
victims of Gagetown for over 50 years of peace in Canada and for the
sons and daughters that they didn't have to loose to war because we
fought the cold war and did the peacekeeping for them and Canada.
Then maybe the Giving in Thanksgiving should be Ottawa giving these
victims back their dignity, the medical attention they deserve and an
ability to enjoy whatever is left of their medically compromised
lives.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Cpl. Kenneth H. Young CD (Ret'd).



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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown
« Reply #216 on: October 08, 2007, 04:58:34 PM »
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Amen to your last Ken, but may ALL have as good a thanksgiving as you can...and maybe one day, the SOBs in Ottawa... and i wonder how the spouses can STAND their mates, knowing what they are REALLY all about.....will come to realize how terribly WRONG they are in their dealing with the victims of the GREAT CDN TRAGEDY....and remember God sees ALL....ranrad
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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown (Paradise Lost by Tom Berger )
« Reply #217 on: October 12, 2007, 05:38:55 AM »
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http://www.articlebankonline.com/ezineready.php?id=11520

Paradise Lost by Tom Berger

I dedicate this column to the memory of Steve Mason and Sarge
Schaefer, whose widow, Fara, asked me in Reno "never to give up the
fight on Agent Orange." The premature loss of these two gifted men
spurs me on in my work and should spur all of us on in our commitment
to justice for those of us whose health has been compromised because
of exposure to dioxin.

Those who have read Robert Allen's excellent book, The Dioxin War,
know that the health effects of dioxin are hardly unique to
Americans. Most recently, the contamination with dioxin of an area of
the Canadian Forces Base at Gagetown, New Brunswick, has come to
light.

The granting of a pension to the widow of Gordon Seller, who died
from leukemia attributed to exposure to Agent Orange, helped focus
attention on the health issues associated with dioxin. Gordon Seller
was no ordinary soldier. Before his death, he had been Director
General of Canadian Land Forces.

In the wake of General Seller's death, almost 700 applications for
monthly disability pensions have been filed with Canadian Veterans
Affairs. To date, four applications have been approved. Two of these
are related to exposure to the defoliant at Gagetown; two others have
been granted to Canadians who served in Vietnam.

According to an account reported by the Associated Press, the son of
a deceased soldier believes that exposure to dioxin is responsible
for the death of his father. "We're seeing entire families wiped out
by cancers, brain disorders, and bowel disorders," Kenneth Dobbie of
Ottawa said. "They all have the same common thread. They were all at
Gagetown in the 1960s and 70s."

In New Zealand, part of the town of New Plymouth may be sitting an a
secret toxic waste dump containing Agent Orange.

According to a former top official at the Ivon Watkins Dow chemical
factory in New Plymouth, Dow owned land "very close to the chemical
plant, which we called 'the Experimental Farm.' We bulldozed big pits
and dumped thousands of tons of chemicals there."

The official, whose identity was confirmed but who insisted on
remaining anonymous, told a reporter that "people who'd served in the
armed forces made a strong case for the need to defoliate the jungle,
because of the risk to servicemen from ambush or sniper fire from the
undergrowth.

"So we began manufacturing this Agent Orange, but it didn't meet the
international specifications and probably had an excess of 'nasties'
in it. The problem was, we didn't consider the product was harmful to
humans at the time.

"Our scientists relied on assurances and technical data provided to
them by Dow Chemical in the U.S.A. We were led to believe it was
safe. The whole reason I supported Agent Orange [manufacture] is
because we thought we were giving our boys on the ground a hand."

At stake now is the possibility of massive compensation payments by
the government of New Zealand to those who have suffered birth
defects and certain chronic illnesses.

Tom Berger is a writer for The VVA Veteran, the official voice of
Vietnam Veterans of America, Inc. ® An organization chartered by the
U.S. Congress. Learn more at www.vva.org

Article Source: http://www.articlebankonline.com
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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown
« Reply #218 on: October 12, 2007, 09:45:58 AM »
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One GROSS ACT OF DENIAL OF THE TRUTH..perpetrated by our very own Fed Gov.....shame ,shame, shame....and yes, i believe GOD will judge you for it, it is not for we people to judge...but judgement day WILL arrive...ranrad
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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown (a simple Question)
« Reply #219 on: October 14, 2007, 01:16:40 PM »
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Ottawa MP's or Bureaucrats who runs this country?

Maybe someone out there in Canada can explain something that has been
bothering me to no end about our way of Government.

If we as Canadians pay over 300 MP's to go through the process of
first, second and third reading of any bill and/or act, send it to
the Senate for revision and legal consultation in-between, vote for,
pass, then send to the senate once again for final approval and then
on to Royal assent before it comes into law in this great country,
why is it then possible for Bureaucrats to totally ignore the laws of
Canada when ever they choose?

A case in point is the Veterans Act which clearly states that if
there is a argument or doubt in a Veterans claim that the Veteran
will no must be given the benefit of the doubt. And yet Veterans
Affairs Canada (VAC), "employees or appointees' all," have stalled
and turned down most of CFB Gagetown Pension claims and it is rumored
that VAC stated, "Gagetown Veterans will not be given the benefit of
the doubt."

What gives these self centered, self important federal employees the
right to change the Veterans Act of Canada? Furthermore what legal right
do they have to saddle Canada with their small minded interpretation
of what the Act really meant to say? I believe that after three
readings in the House (mostly Lawyers) and two or three times through
the Senate (again mostly lawyers), the people who Canadians elected
to suggest, debate, pass and enact laws in this country, knew exactly
what they meant and do not need some Johnny come lately Bureaucrats
to ignore the laws they are hired to up-hold wile more or less
telling Canadians that they know better then the Government.

I have no doubt that if this is printed that some Bureaucrat in
Ottawa will suddenly decide that I might be a subject of National
concern. Heck some Government departments are already doing internet
searches on me and not only I, have the proof.

In my opinion it is time for Ottawa to come clean and to decide who
runs this country, elected officials or the Bureaucrats under them.
If it is the Bureaucrats we Canadians can save a heck of a lot of
money and time voting for MP's if they have no purpose anyway.

If it is the elected Officials (MP's) it's time to clean house, lay
down the law and remember just because someone has been doing the job
wrong for the past 20 years does not mean that they are the right
person for the Job.

Cpl. Kenneth H. Young CD (Ret'd).
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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown
« Reply #220 on: October 15, 2007, 11:08:21 AM »
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I have spoke on this topic before here, and agree with you totally Ken, and it is ONLY during election campaigns that the voters can put the onus on those who wish to run to represent their area of the country.. the voter MUST put that question to them, "what are you going to do about cleaning up who runs the various departments within the government?" They are out of control, we are in fact paying sepaarate people to do ONE job, and the one  ,NOT ELECTED , is actually running their department, NOT the elected official...the POWER has got to be PUT BACK with the elected and appointed MPs, NOT the bureaucrats... and yes, i also agree that some bureaucrats NEED to be made an example of... charges and real jail time would straighten out a lot of this... so now the question..WHO IS GOING TO ORDER THE INVESTIGATION AND GET THIS PROCESS GOING ? Over to you ELECTED MPs .. let us see YOU , upholding the laws of the land.. or we will soon have anarchy....ranrad
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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown (GB recognise Gulf War Syndrome )
« Reply #221 on: October 16, 2007, 01:57:48 PM »
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http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1019511_victory_for_gulf_veterans

Victory for Gulf veterans
Ian Craig
12/10/2007

THE Ministry of Defence is to officially recognise Gulf War Syndrome
following a 17-year campaign by ex-servicemen.

Defence Minister Lord Drayson made the admission in a `grovelling
apology' to Manchester peer Lord Morris, who has led the way in
highlighting problems faced by veterans of the 1990-91 conflict.

Lord Drayson said: "The issue of Gulf War Syndrome will be fully
recognised by the Ministry of Defence and I accept on behalf of the
MoD that this issue has not been handled well from the beginning.

"The department was slow to recognise the emerging ill- health
issues and to put measures in place to address them. We have
apologised for this and I repeat that apology today."

Some peers believe that what Lord Craig suggested was a `belated
apology' was influenced by Gordon Brown who took a different view to
his predecessor Tony Blair about the `undiagnosed' illnesses
suffered by veterans.

Lord Morris, former MP for Wythenshawe, called for official
recognition of the syndrome in the Lords, saying it was disquieting
that 17 years on from the conflict wrangling with veterans over
pensions still drags on, with no visible sign of closure.

He said it was deeply shaming that one Gulf War veteran, Terence
Walker, had his pension slashed from 100 per cent to 40 per cent and
died shortly after `in financial ruin'.

Lord Drayson said the MoD had written to veterans to tell them they
can use the label Gulf War Syndrome and are now working with experts
to develop a rehabilitation programme.

Lord Morris said later: "Nobody has ever before now said sorry to
those veterans left in broken health and those bereaved after the
most toxic war in British history."

Following a landmark ex-serviceman's pension tribunal appeal in
October 2005 the MoD has accepted gulf war syndrome as a "useful
umbrella term" for conditions which are linked to the 1990/91 gulf
conflict however they do not accept it exists as a separate disease.

An MoD spokesman said: "We have long accepted some veterans of the
1990/91 gulf conflict are ill and some of their ill health is
related to their services."

Two Comments

Anyone suffering the ill effects from serving in any of the gulf
conflicts or there family (1991-current)can get advice and help from
a National charity the NATIONAL GULF VETERANS AND FAMILES
ASSOCIATION you can contact them on 01482 808730 or website
www.ngvfa.org.uk there is lots of information for veterans and
families. I am the wife of a veteran and know how they can help.
Christina, Bolton

Dosnt this just show people what contempt our government have for
our armed forces .After america addmitted that the war syndrome
existed britain still maintained it didnt exist. I dont blame any
soldier wanting out of this excuse of a war we are in now after how
we have treated our vets from the past wars. Well done and i hope
all you lads and their families get what you all deserve.
ace, manchester
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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown(KEITH SCHNEIDER, SPECIAL )
« Reply #222 on: October 16, 2007, 07:36:51 PM »
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http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE1DE1130F933A2575BC0A966958260&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Subjects/V/Vietnam%20War

By KEITH SCHNEIDER, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: August 10, 1990
LEAD: After 14 months of investigation, a House committee concluded
today that the Reagan Administration had obstructed a $43 million
Federal health study of Vietnam veterans exposed to the defoliant
Agent Orange, causing the study's cancellation.

After 14 months of investigation, a House committee concluded today
that the Reagan Administration had obstructed a $43 million Federal
health study of Vietnam veterans exposed to the defoliant Agent
Orange, causing the study's cancellation.

A panel of Federal officials and scientists halted the study in
1987, saying it was scientifically impossible to establish the
levels of exposure for individual veterans.

But the House committee, after reviewing evidence from the National
Academy of Sciences, the Defense Department and the Centers for
Disease Control who had participated in the health study, said
military records could be used to identify veterans exposed to Agent
Orange.

A spokesman for the Centers for Disease Control, which had been
supervising the study, said today that the agency had not seen the
House report and was not prepared to respond.

Fear of Liability Cited

The report, by the House Government Operations Committee, said the
White House feared that if a health study found a link between the
veterans' exposure to Agent Orange and any illnesses the Government
could be liable for billions of dollars in compensation claims.
Veterans who say their injuries or illnesses were caused by Agent
Orange do not now receive compensation from the Government.

While most Republicans on the committee supported the report, 6 of
the 15 Republican members disagreed with the conclusions. In a
dissenting report, they said ample evidence existed to conclude that
the health study was canceled solely on scientific grounds, and
called the report an ''ideological assault upon a Republican White
House.''

The report is the latest aspect of a scientific and political
struggle over Agent Orange that has periodically engulfed Federal
health and environmental agencies, Congress, veterans' groups and
the courts since the issue arose in 1978.

The report was based on an investigation by Representative Ted
Weiss, a Manhattan Democrat who is chairman of the committee's
Subcommittee on Human Resources.

Agent Orange, a herbicide widely used by American forces to destroy
cover and crops used by Communist troops in the Vietnam War,
contained trace amounts of dioxin, a chemical compound known to
cause tumors and birth defects in laboratory animals.

Vietnam veterans exposed to it believe Agent Orange caused numerous
illnesses and birth deformities. Last week the American Legion and
Vietnam Veterans of America filed separate lawsuits in Federal
District Court here against two Federal health agencies and the
Department of Veterans Affairs for failing to complete the health
study of Vietnam veterans.

In 1979 Congress passed a law ordering the Veterans Administration,
the precursor of the Department of Veterans Affairs, to make the
first comprehensive assessment of the health of veterans exposed to
Agent Orange. A vital facet of the study was a project to review
military records and locate troop movements through regions sprayed
with Agent Orange.

The V.A. was unable to develop the protocols for conducting the
health study, and in 1982 Congress transferred the research to the
Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta.

Records Termed Inadequate

According to the committee report, the White House began to direct
essential aspects of the C.D.C. study through the Agent Orange
Working Group, a 34-member panel of Federal scientists and health
officials established in the Carter Administration who reviewed
studies of Vietnam-era defoliants.

The most important decision of the panel was its determination in
1987 that the Pentagon's records on troop movements in areas that
had been sprayed with Agent Orange were not adequate for conducting
the study. Gaps and flaws in the records, the panel said, made it
impossible to accurately measure a soldier's exposure to the
defoliant.

But the House report concluded that such measurements were possible.

The report said, ''The White House was deeply concerned that the
Federal Government would be placed in the position of paying
compensation to veterans suffering diseases related to Agent Orange,
and feared that providing help to Vietnam veterans would set the
precedent of having the U.S. compensate civilian victims of toxic
contaminant exposure, too.''
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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown (Veterans on Strike)
« Reply #223 on: October 17, 2007, 08:14:40 AM »
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From: steve white <swhite000@hotmail.com>
Date: 2007/10/14 Sun PM 07:43:51 EDT

Subject: Veterans on Strike
 
Now is the time for Veterans to take action, with the week of the Veteran and possible fall election approaching. We need to picket the nearest military establishment, similar to what Public Service union does whenever they strike. We only need one day of causing DND a headache, with news coverage, to get more public awareness. I propose doing it nationally on Nov 8th, the Thursday before Remembrance Day, as the Friday will most likely be a holiday for most of the CF. I just need help getting word out to all the different organizations, and individuals, with some sort of contact for each location, so they can contact their local news stations, and get some sort of confirmation of attendance. This also doesn't need to be limited to any specific group of veterans, as we are all facing some  sort of discrimination or other from the government, from SISIP, to CPP, to survivor benefits, so all veterans and their supporters will be welcomed. If we cannot get enough interest for next month, a future date will be considered.

If anyone wants to volunteer for their area or just wants to express interest in attending, please contact me at (902) 252-9544 or send me an email.

Please forward this to as many veterans as possible. Thank you.

Steven White CD
Lower Sackville N.S.
swhite000@hotmail.com
 
 
We do not need to only have disabled veterans attend, as all CF veterans are fighting some issue about being treated fairly. We have guys fighting the CPP clawback, we have widows fighting VIP coverage, we have agent orange victims were are fighting for fair compensation. With all the veterans nationwide, we should be able to demonstrate outside most major facilities, like NDHQ in Ottawa, Gagetown, Stadicona in Halifax, Naden in Victoria. Even if we only have a handful at each location for a few hours, the news can report that veterans demonstrated nationwide, which is more potent a statement than a group of veterans demonstrated any one location.


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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown
« Reply #224 on: October 17, 2007, 09:27:05 AM »
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This is a great idea, but i wonder if the plan time is sufficient now. It seems to me that one of the drawbacks for veterans is lack of information that the general public can understand. To succeed, we need the publics support, to get that support on a large scale, the public needs the facts and figures. Right now they only get blurbs and blips here and there, so while concerned , do not fully understand so generally keep quiet. ....ranrad
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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown (Dear Editor,)
« Reply #225 on: October 18, 2007, 10:13:04 AM »
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This is my response to the; Speaking Notes for the Honourable Greg
Thompson, Minister of Veterans Affairs, on the Occasion of the
Appointment of the Veterans Ombudsman
Presented in Ottawa, ON – on October 16, 2007

Dear Editor,

Wile reading Mr. Thompson's speech in concerns to the appointment of
Canada's long over due Veterans Ombudsman, I noted that he has been
under much stress lately by some of the statements he made in this
speech.

One statement attributed to the Veterans Affairs Minister Greg
Thompson which can only be described as delusional, "We did what
successive governments would not do when we resolved the spraying of
Agent Orange at CFB Gagetown," in my opinion shows that Greg Thompson
is no longer in touch with reality.

If the seven days of US Chemical use at CFB Gagetown, less then 1
tenth of one percent of chemicals used and including at best 1
percent of victims for compensation can be considered, "we resolved
the spraying of Agent Orange at CFB Gagetown, "then one brick laid
could also be considered building completed.

Anyone who believes that 50 years of lying and deception followed by
another two years of waiting for a 1% solution constitutes, "and it
is our responsibility to match such dedication - 100 per cent,
Without hesitation, Without reservation, "is in my opinion delusional
and in dire need of rest.

But just the same I would like to welcome Colonel Patrick Stogran
Canada's first Veterans Ombudsman and wish him well with the more
then 50 year backlog of Gagetown Veteran Victims and we all hope that
he is in better touch with reality then most of the others who have
dealt with this issue, that is if he is even allowed to touch the
Gagetown Chemical Defoliant question at all.

Cpl. Kenneth H. Young CD (Ret'd).



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Ken Young

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Ron [Andy] Andrews
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Re: Agent Orange Gagetown
« Reply #226 on: October 18, 2007, 11:08:49 AM »
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Hmmm, well Ken, i have to agree ,the Min of Vet Aff must be out of touch, even dillusional.. for the Agent Orange problem..TRAGEDY .. HAS NOT BEEN RESOLVED... where did he ever get that idea from? And i too welcome the Col taking over a job that is very dear to the hearts of many veterans... like about a half million or more.. and wish him luck...he may go mad trying to do it..ranrad 
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RCAF,CAF, converted RCR?,1RCR 74-77 CD: SSM (Nato);CPSM,;UN-Cyp.; UN- Golan
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