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Topic: 110,000 Cdns could lose citizenship Children of soldiers and diplomats (Read 1082 times)
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Jesse Reed
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OTTAWA (CP) - At least 110,000 "Lost Canadians," who risk being stripped of their citizenship under an arcane law, are the children of soldiers and diplomats who served overseas, a parliamentary committee heard Monday.
Don Chapman, who has been leading the charge to change Canada's Citizenship Act, said veterans who fought and died for the country would be ashamed of the government. "It is totally against what they fought for," Chapman said after an appearance before the Commons citizenship and immigration commit
"They fought for a Canada that was accepting, compassionate, and fair, and they fought for their own children. Those children are being victimized today."
Between 1947 and 1977, Canada's Citizenship Act said children born out of wedlock or to a father who took a second citizenship would be disqualified as Canadians. Those two scenarios are the ones that apply most often.
The issue has left many Canadians, including four MPs, scrambling to find out if they or their children are citizens.
Chapman wants the current law changed to restore citizenship to those who had it revoked, and to protect those born between 1947 and 1977.
He estimates that 700,000 Canadians have either lost their citizenship or are at risk of having it stripped.
Christine Eden, chair of a special Air Force committee on Lost Canadians in the military, said 110,000 is a conservative estimate for the number of military and diplomat kids affected.
"It's a big problem because if we're not Canadian, then we're citizens of the country of our birth - and I'm already hearing about some men who have been served draft notices by those countries," Eden said.
Eden added that at least two active soldiers have lost their citizenship.
Immigration Minister Diane Finley said the government has had just 881 calls on potential loss of citizenship.
"I am treating these cases as a priority," she said in a statement. "I have directed the department to resolve these questions as quickly as possible.
"I think it's also important to keep the scale of the issue in perspective."
But Chapman, Eden and many MPs agreed that's not a reliable number because many people either don't know they're Lost Canadians or they don't want to come forward in case they have their citizenship stripped.
Committee members shook their heads as they listened to testimony from Lost Canadians, including Joe Taylor, the son of a survivor of the Normandy invasion of 1944.
"To our soldiers, and their descendants, whenever I hear your story, I have to apologize," said Liberal MP Andrew Telegdi. "This is terrible and I feel awfully bad for each and every one of you."
Eden said the government's failure to tell military staff about changing citizenship rules constitutes a definite lack of respect for the families of those willing to die for their country.
Just ask Sheila Walshe. Her father, a Canadian soldier in England during the Second World War, had her out of wedlock because Allied soldiers were barred from marrying during the war.
"They were expected to die in battle," she explained.
Afterward, Walshe was raised in Canada for nine years. Then her homesick mother abducted her, taking her back to England. Walshe was told her father had died a few months later, but in 1990, she found her estranged father and decided to move her family back to Canada.
In 1991 she tried to do just that - and found out she wasn't Canadian.
Fighting back tears, Walshe explained that her father was a patriot and his dying wish was to see his daughter's citizenship recognized by the government. He never did.
"I've always been Canadian," said Walshe. "I wasn't English, that's for sure, because they kept telling me I was a Canadian bit of dirt."
She said the government isn't living up to her idea of Canada.
"Canada is just and honourable and fair, and I know because my father told me so when I was knee-high to a grasshopper. None of this seems very Canadian."
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Jesse Reed
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Ghalsey
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Read this this morning in the paper
Thats just crazy 
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Geoff Halsey
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Mike Blais
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A ROYAL CANADIAN "NEVER PASSES A FAULT"
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A Canadian bit of dirt? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrr.......
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1RCR 1977-79 Depot (Italy PL), B Coy, Mortars, Pioneers, D Coy (CFB London)
3RCR 1979-82 M Coy, Pipes & Drums, Sigs, Mortars. (CFB Baden-Soellingen)
1RCR 1982-88 Mortars. Dukes, Cyprus-Welfare NCO 84-85, Injured, WO&Sgts Mess, (CFB London)
1988-92 Med-remuster to HELL/ 35 DU, CFB Baden
1992 Medical release. God Bless you all!
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blackdog
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a canadian bit of dirt? there are times when the military of all nations are considered dirt, they are put on pedestals when needed for defence of their country. just consider we who are victims of the agent orange exposure. i feel a genuine sorrow for our soldiers now serving in war zones. when they begin to show symptoms of what they endured, their government will do everything to discredit them.
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Tim McCully
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I've experienced the British treament of a Colonial Deserter, so i can just hear that comment being made,"A Canadian piece of Dirt" It touches me in the same place and it is not acceptable to me! Governments will always throw shit at the people who put them in power it is as sure as death and taxes. Our soldiers are the real Canadians who show the true nature of Canadian values and honour to the rest of the world. No matter what is being said, it is actions not words that carry the wieght of the heart of Canadians. I have heard in the past that if one does not vote, then they are not entitled to bitch, well i accepted this for years and kept my mouth shut! Then i realized that as a taxpayer, wether i vote or not, i pay for my rite to bitch regardless. Therefore, any one agree that goverment officials should be paid by the same scale as a Soldier? Maybe if we got the greed out of the house we could begin to change things towards a more positive future of Peace and Harmony. Start the junior officials as a private scale and let them work thier way through. With the Prime Minister never making more than the Cheif of National Defence. This present situation with citizenship is a blatent slap in the face to all Canadians and our history. Wake up Canada and realize that truly we are free... to do as we are told!
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1RCR (82-88) B coy 6pl, (84-85) UNFICYP- BBC coy Tpt, C coy 9pl, E coy Mortars, (88-90) CFB Halifax Base Chief's Staff, CFB Trenton Refinisher Tech.(90-92). UNFICYP,CPSM
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Gerry Connors
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I hate to say it, but IMHO, I've thought from time to time (80's & 90's) the elected Canadain officials of the time thought of their military as
second-class-citizens..as an after-thought
...as fire insurance - ya think you don't you need it until you start to smell the smoke...
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1RCR Duke's Coy '82 - '87; Cyprus '84 / '85
LOTPed medic 1988; CFH Halifax '88 - '90
119 AD Bty medic, CFB Chatham '90 - '95
2RCR medic '95 - '00; SFOR Bosnia, 2RCR Roto 4 '99;
42 Hlth Svc Gagetown '00 - '02
CFRC Gagetown / Fredericton '02 - '06; 'retired' Aug '06
HMCS Jolliet, Sept-Iles QC, medical staff / 'tiffy' (reserves)
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billy macneil
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I have to agree with you a 100% on that one Gerry .I remember when i went for cop test in Ont in the early 90's the person givin the test in missasauga was not very happy to see an ex grunt takin the test.They were freindly to the college folks lol after that test i knew what dirt felt like.Hopefully are govt will look after the guys who are hurt with respect and and not try to stick handle around them when it comes to benifits and continuing care.Some how i have me doubts.......
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Gerry Connors
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Hi Billy, I thought it was just me, but I had the same experience when I went to the RNC back home while on leave, and with the RCMP when I was posted to Stadecona, both times in the mid to late '80's.
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1RCR Duke's Coy '82 - '87; Cyprus '84 / '85
LOTPed medic 1988; CFH Halifax '88 - '90
119 AD Bty medic, CFB Chatham '90 - '95
2RCR medic '95 - '00; SFOR Bosnia, 2RCR Roto 4 '99;
42 Hlth Svc Gagetown '00 - '02
CFRC Gagetown / Fredericton '02 - '06; 'retired' Aug '06
HMCS Jolliet, Sept-Iles QC, medical staff / 'tiffy' (reserves)
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jjterrio
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Well guys I guess we are a lot more like our neighbours than we want to be and wear our patriotism on our sleeves. The poor sap in Ottawa that is pushing this stupid bill needs a reality check. Our fathers fought to make this country what it is and we have no problem letting the children of warlords and convicts into our country and support them, but we can't seem to be able to elect someone with enough sense to realise that the children of the war vets have contributed toward our economy for decades.
Once I was released it was hard to figure out why I had a road block everywhere I went, I reeducated through our programs yet could not get anything in Ontario for my co-op positioning, I was told I was too shy, too old, and even told by my business ethics instructor to have my wife get me a position where she worked. The employment centres were not helpful, and responded with remarks toward my previous employment and not being educated in Ontario, this coming from someone who could barely speak english, and no french at all. I also topped many of the programs I took and yet had no positive response from anything government related, and was just put into the same group as anyone else.
I have come to the reality to not expect anything from our public services both provincial and federal, and that they will do what they desire.
Unfortunately we elected some stupid people, and now we have vote them out
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Mike Blais
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I think the general public expects retiring soldiers to find employment in Corps of Commissionaires and write traffic tickets or guard an airport/ hospital kiosk the rest of our lives. For peanuts, of course. We got to start taking care of our own, dammit. Surely there are Royal Canadians, perhaps members of this very association, who are in positions to assist or even offer meaningful employment to the lads when they've served their time in paradise. Close to home work, with a pension and more then a couple of bucks over minimum wage. Some security during the transition. Is that to much to ask? I guess I'm lucky, my disability is pretty good and wifey has got a job.... but I know others who are scraping to survive. Many have been abandoned by the forces. Last year, a Royal Canadian who was a friend of mine died on the f'n streets. I had no idea he was in such dire straits.
That is not right! We have to band together to defend our seves and recieve what we justl;y deserve without the freaking dog and pony show.
And BTW, now that I'm miffed....
Has anybody noticed that this F You attitude you guys would refer to is rife within the core of Veterans affairs? Notice how they nickle and dime your awards... Notice that you have to repeatedly appeal just to get the award you should have gotten in the first place? Personally, and I get a full disability from SISIP, I find Maritme Life more fair to deal with the Veteran Affairs!
Go figure! They, at least cough up the full percentage points wherein Veteran Affairs deemed the very same injury worthy of only fifteen percent.
Think of it. 75 percent from SISIP, 15 from Veterans Affairs.
I find that bizaro. Here we have the dreaded commercial insurance company, who sent me to their very own whizkid doctor, forking out the difference to seventy five percent... compared to veterans and there so called board compassion (BS) awarding a mere fifteen percent for the same injury.
Three words, gentlemen.
COVER YOUR ASS!!!!
And for Royal Canadians in leadership rolls, make damn sure that the relevant facts relating to any of your troops injuries are recorded and that the appropriate paperwork is completed. Its to late fifteen, twenty years later when there is no documents to support a claim and, alone, a Royal Canadian has to deal with the fact he's getting screwed we he needs help the most.
Help.
And respect.
Pro Patria.
Mike.
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1RCR 1977-79 Depot (Italy PL), B Coy, Mortars, Pioneers, D Coy (CFB London)
3RCR 1979-82 M Coy, Pipes & Drums, Sigs, Mortars. (CFB Baden-Soellingen)
1RCR 1982-88 Mortars. Dukes, Cyprus-Welfare NCO 84-85, Injured, WO&Sgts Mess, (CFB London)
1988-92 Med-remuster to HELL/ 35 DU, CFB Baden
1992 Medical release. God Bless you all!
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ranrad
Ron [Andy] Andrews
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Sorry brothers ,i will not accept that statement of Canadian soldiers are "dirt". I do know what is meant by it, the way it has been since the beginning of thisgreat land..but ,the history t, the real truths of Canadian soldiers since the brginning of Canada, and its former names has always been one o f SUPERB SOLDIER, and thsi has been born out time and time again .. and as we all know is on going today in Afghanistan and other missions....we , you , and i and all brothers have got to start demanding that thsi attitude nbo longer be accepted. I call upon ALL BROTHERS to begin a new attitude.. and demand it thru your MPs , MLAs and even your local municipal people.. Will you all join me in beginning this new APPRECIATION of OUR SOLDIERS AND FAMILIES...The wives have already begun this , let us join them and put this as a priority? ranrad
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RCAF,CAF, converted RCR?,1RCR 74-77 CD: SSM (Nato);CPSM,;UN-Cyp.; UN- Golan
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jjterrio
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There are some very good points, I also have a pretty good pension, and a wife who has a good income, but I just really wanted to work. The main point I guess I am getting at is that what are the young troops going to do. The system has changed and it sounds initially good but what about long term care for anyone who falls through a loop whole. The burden of all those who are injured falls on our government and our people to absorb these costs. Veteran affairs has changed and they now want to have control over everything with no follow-up. If feel disappointed what do the wives children and soldiers in todays army feel. Hopefully the CDS follows through with his plans to support the soldiers.
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Jim Hickson
CWO H.J. Hickson, MMM, CD. (Retd)
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Hi jjterrio
You aren't related to Jack Terrio I knew in the early 60's?
Jim
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1961-Depot San Lenorado
1962-1st Bn RCR Ex Gagetown
1962-JR NCO Course Grad 19 Oct
1962-1965 Germany B-C-D-A Coy (Revecated Nov 64)
1965-1967 Sigs Pl Cyprus Prom CPL 'til xmas and C of Drums
1967-1973 Cpl, MCpl, Sgt, Sigs, D Coy
1973-1977 CFOCS Chilliwack Prom WO
1977-1982 UEO, Sigs, Pl WO RECCE, CSM B&A Coy,
1982-1984 SIT School
1984-1988 Career Manager (Prom CWO 1986)
1988-1990 RSM 1RCR
1991-1995 CWO Adm(Per) - C Of S
1995-1999 Base CWO Wainwright
1999-Retired
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billy macneil
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I have to agree DVA is not there for us there a bunch of people with positions to them we are all malingarers.That is after my own battles with them.This is a good site for us hopefully we can help each other when we can't get answers any where else.When i got out i tried bein a cop/firefighter for about 2 years i wasn't politically correct enough lol.Any way things worked out good so f$$kem.
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Young Ken
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Canadian Military receives a great thank you from Ottawa
Thousands of Victims from the CFB Gagetown Atrocity or probably better known as the chemically poisoned victims of a 29 year military defoliation program which for some reason used Dioxin and Hexachlorobenzene (HCB) laced pesticide chemicals, to defoliate the trees on the base, many of the Suffield Volunteers, thousands of Gulf war sufferers and even the radiation victims from the Canadian armed Forces have now for years felt like second class citizens.
Shunned by CPP and Workmen Compensation, denied and given the run around by Veterans Affairs Canada (VAC) and totally ignored by Ottawa, it is of little wonder why many if not all of us have felt this way.
But when Canada started to even deny our children, Canadian citizenship, our the belief that we were second class citizens turned to an even darker and more sinister faze. As Canada now has decided to tell many of our children that they are not even Canadian.
We find that not only were we not being treated as second class citizens but were not even being treated as a Canadian citizen at all.
Cpl. Kenneth H. Young CD (Ret'd).
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Ken Young
Kentar@telus.net
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ranrad
Ron [Andy] Andrews
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I have to agree with the feeling Ken, its something like i have not done my duty even after they have said to me and all the public i have.Apparently veterans ARE going to get an Ombudsman, but i did not catch whether it was gov appointed or on the recommendations of Veterans associations. I agree with the vet associations ,that if solely appointed by the gov, the Ombudsman will only use up more of the VA funds and get few results for any vet.. and i also agree this site can help us all, and does get us all together on one mediunm.. ranrad
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RCAF,CAF, converted RCR?,1RCR 74-77 CD: SSM (Nato);CPSM,;UN-Cyp.; UN- Golan
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jjterrio
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The feeling that any government appointed representative would be a voice for any part of the Canadian Armed Forces past or present is just one more kick in the pants. If somehow a senior serving or past serving member could get that position, or perhaps someone could speak out in favour of an individual that could handle such a position it would be a blessing. No matter how much someone can say they understand, and I do include myself in saying this, "is that if you were not there you really don't know". We have had so much peace and so little conflict for most of our careers, there are new and devasting battle created stress and other injury to our new troops, and to their families that in past wars had not been addressed. Now perhaps the generals who have recently focused their books on these issues should stand up some more and take charge. The understanding on the diplomatic side is something most of us from the ranks do not have the expertise for, yet is understandable to us all that getting screwed is nothing new.
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Mike Blais
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A ROYAL CANADIAN "NEVER PASSES A FAULT"
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Heres another one for the file..... The military response is less then encouraging.... no mandate to take care of the dependents when the lads are at war? WTF is that!
Ont. soldiers' children denied mental health care
Updated Thu. Mar. 1 2007 8:11 AM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
Dozens of children of Ontario-based soldiers serving in Afghanistan are being denied the mental health care they need amid a dispute over who will pay for the service, according to a report.
The Globe and Mail reported in its Thursday's edition that the provincial and federal governments can't agree on who should pay for the therapy sought for the more than 40 children who suffered mental trauma in their parents' absence.
About 90 military families have sought assistance at the Phoenix Centre for Children and Families, which serves Renfrew County, including CFB Petawawa. In 2005, only 10 families sought help.
There's now a four-month waiting list for treatment for such conditions as attention deficit disorder and anxiety, Phoenix Centre executive director and therapist Greg Lubimiv said Wednesday,
Lubimiv told the newspaper he has petitioned both Queen's Park and Ottawa for more funding.
But so far, the defence department has rebuffed the requests, saying it only looks after the mental health of soldiers, not their families.
"There's no mandate to provide these services to the family members," Lieutenant-Colonel Dave Rundle, commander of CFB Petawawa told The Globe.
Mary Anne Chambers, Ontario's Minister of Children and Youth Services, pointed the finger at the federal government.
Chambers told the newspaper she increased the budget for children's mental health care to $467 million, a $38-million increase since 2004, when the Liberal government came into office in Ontario.
But Lubimiv said this means his centre's $1.5-million budget has only seen a 3-per-cent increase, which is not nearly enough to cover the surge in requests for help from military families last year.
A spokesperson for federal Health Minister Tony Clement told The Globe he is prepared to talk to his provincial counterpart, but he reiterated that it is the province's responsibility to take care of mental health care issues.
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1RCR 1977-79 Depot (Italy PL), B Coy, Mortars, Pioneers, D Coy (CFB London)
3RCR 1979-82 M Coy, Pipes & Drums, Sigs, Mortars. (CFB Baden-Soellingen)
1RCR 1982-88 Mortars. Dukes, Cyprus-Welfare NCO 84-85, Injured, WO&Sgts Mess, (CFB London)
1988-92 Med-remuster to HELL/ 35 DU, CFB Baden
1992 Medical release. God Bless you all!
Pro Patria
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Mike Blais
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Ombudsman probes plight of traumatized Forces children
ALEX DOBROTA
OTTAWA -- Ontario's Ombudsman has dispatched investigators to find out why children of soldiers serving in Afghanistan who suffered mental trauma in their parents' absence are being denied therapists.
Officials with Ombudsman André Marin's special response team will question Ontario public servants and staff of the province's Minister of Children and Youth Services in the next few weeks.
Mr. Marin called the investigation yesterday after The Globe and Mail reported more than 40 children on and around CFB Petawawa are waiting to receive psychological care as the provincial and federal governments squabble over who should pay.
"We've got 40 children who are suffering from psychological trauma and you've got, essentially, both levels of government washing their hands of it," Mr. Marin said in an interview. "I'm concerned. We have soldiers overseas who need to be able to focus on their mission who are concerned with their families back home."
Because the military pays for only the care of its soldiers, families living on CFB Petawawa have resorted to the Phoenix Centre for Families and Children in a nearby town.
Since last year, when Canadian soldiers started fighting and dying in Afghanistan's southern province of Kandahar, about 90 military families from Petawawa sought help at the centre, up from 10 in 2005.
The surge in demand stretched the centre's resources and drove waiting times up to four months, executive director Greg Lubimiv said. He said he petitioned Ottawa and Queen's Park, but his requests for more funding were not met.
Mental care for children is traditionally a responsibility of the provincial government. And members of the Canadian Forces in Ontario are required to pay a provincial health tax brought in by the McGuinty government in 2004, although the soldiers do not receive care from the province.
Mr. Lubimiv complained to the provincial Ombudsman yesterday. But Mary Anne Chambers, Ontario's Minister of Children and Youth, remained firm in her views.
In an interview yesterday, Ms. Chambers said her government has no funds to clean up the damage wrought by a federal initiative. "It's only fair for them [the federal government] to look at the consequences of Canada's men and women serving abroad and what happens while they are away and also what could happen when they come back home," she said.
Nonsense, replied federal Minister of Health Tony Clement.
"To suggest that because a child's mother or father chooses to serve his or her country in Afghanistan . . . the children do not get available mental- health services, I find that entirely regrettable and, in fact, reprehensible," Mr. Clement said in the lobby of the House of Commons.
The children suffer from disorders ranging from attention deficit disorder and anxiety to suicidal thoughts, Mr. Lubimiv said.
Peter Suedfeld, a psychology professor at the University British Columbia, said the mental trauma suffered by children of soldiers usually tapers off by adulthood.
"But, yes, if the family asks for support, they should get it," Prof. Suedfeld said.
Mr. Marin said his office is working to issue a report on the matter within 30 days.
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1RCR 1977-79 Depot (Italy PL), B Coy, Mortars, Pioneers, D Coy (CFB London)
3RCR 1979-82 M Coy, Pipes & Drums, Sigs, Mortars. (CFB Baden-Soellingen)
1RCR 1982-88 Mortars. Dukes, Cyprus-Welfare NCO 84-85, Injured, WO&Sgts Mess, (CFB London)
1988-92 Med-remuster to HELL/ 35 DU, CFB Baden
1992 Medical release. God Bless you all!
Pro Patria
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ranrad
Ron [Andy] Andrews
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Good report Mike ,and i agree, the military family is the entire family.. soldiers, spouses and kids and they may all be in need of help..as all are affected by these traumas....lets get the WHOLE FAMILY taken care of...ranrad
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RCAF,CAF, converted RCR?,1RCR 74-77 CD: SSM (Nato);CPSM,;UN-Cyp.; UN- Golan
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Mike Blais
SSM (NATO Bar), CPSM, UN-Cyp, CD
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