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dave
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Yugoslavia 1992 3RCR N-coy
« on: January 26, 2007, 12:26:38 PM »
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Hi everyone;

I want to pass on something that many guys arent aware of.  In April of 1992 the Canadian government thought it necessary that Canada lend its peacekeeping prowess to the former Yugoslavia.  So it was decided that the VanDoos from Lahr along with one company from 3RCR at Baden should proceed to Croatia. 

So in Baden they reformed the battalion and a good % of the soldiers were put into November Company.  You have to remember that at that time our Battalion was extremely downsized as it was then known that the bases in Germany would soon close.  And so the extensions most of us received for four more years in "Hollywood" Battalion were done away with.  And consequently many guys either got out or were posted back to Canada.  Anyway after the company was reformed we must have numbered between 250-300 guys.  An extremely big company--but included in that was a recce platoon as well as company recce that was bigger than the rifle platoons.  So in early April of 92 we loaded up the trains and headed for the war torn Yugoslavia.  What a great train move--they decided that 1 section per platoon had to do security so for the rest of us it was a three day drunk.

The day we arrived it was decided that the frogs as well as our recce platoon stay in the city of Duravar and that the RCR's move to the town of Sirac about 15 kms from Duravar.  So that first night as we were receiving our "O" group in which they stressed that we continue on as normal and that this tour would differ little from Cyprus we were mortared for the first time.  The guys acted professionally as the first bombs hit everyone headed for the tracks.  That night we spent our time digging in around the town.  For the next three months we spent our time doing patrols into deserted towns--doing security--guarding weapons depot--that kinda stuff.  We spent every waking moment wearing flak jacket helmet and loaded weapon in our hands.  Looking back I am glad that we were the last of  "the old army" (old peace time army).  We were still allowed to drink when we were free and in fact we were always awarded with two "free issues".  Think of that today I had a C-9 in my hands always loaded even when I was loaded.  We had a very good company being that so many of us were in Germany 4 years prior to the tour and we all pretty well knew each other.

Anyway in July of 92 they sent us to Sarajevo.  Man what a road move--it was like from the old war movies where people line the streets for the liberating army.  It was a 2 day road move and we really brought hope to the towns that we passed through.  And on the 2nd or 3rd of July we reached the airport in Sarajevo.  We spent that first night sleeping by the tracks and the VanDoos were moved into one of the terminals.  So once again the Vandoos got the cushy place and they sent us out in the city.  Our job was to deliver food and medical supplies to the the people of Sarajevo and the frogs secured the airport along with soldiers from France.

The month for us was extremely exciting.  We had daily trips through sniper alley and were mortared frequently.  It was funny when we were done our chores for the day everyone headed back to the shacks--which was a two story building with the only precautions that the windows were covered with garbage bags.  Almost every night we all got drunk together with the war going on a couple of hundred meters from us--but we felt safe in the shacks.  This went on for a month and then we left Sarajevo for Croatia once again.  Allot of shit happened but I wont get into that here.  And the poor guys in Afghanistan are going through worse than we could have imagined.

The two remaining months we spent patrolling towns in Croatia and counting down the days until we were back in Baden.  Eventually the day came and we went home.  We all got a month leave which was well deserved--but little did we know that most of our lives would be changed forever because of this tour.  We went back to work in November--mostly drill in preperation for the farewell to Germany parade.  They also threw us a party--and what was our reward--2 free issues.  This was a great time for us as allot of the single guys were sent back to either Gagetown or Petawawa an the 3rd of December.  Thats the last time I saw some of my good buddies that I knew since 1988 or earlier if we were in 1 RCR together.  I was posted to Gagetown and arrived there in April of 93.  It wasent to bad--we had to get used to making less money but almost all the guys from Germany were put into J coy.  I withstood this for two years then I had to get out--we were posted to Jugo again.

I know all of this is kinda boring but now I am getting to the point I want to make.  I still have contact with 6 guys from the army days--but I wont mention names--and all 6 have been diagnosed with PTSD-myself included.  That dont sound too bad but when you think I have contact with only six guys thats 100% of all the guys I still have contact with and all are receiving money from the DVA.  Each one of these guys knows someone else that is also going through the same thing as us.  My best friend from my army days--Rick Laugheed--killed himself--I knew this guy from the day we went to the recruiting office in Winnipeg way back in 86.  WO Sullivan--super soldier killed himself--if you didnt know WO Sullivan just look at the statue in Gagetown--thats him--super soldier all the way.  I think this is unique for the Canadian army that so many guys are now screwed up.  And we had no combat--thats why I always ask myself why.

They gave us a needle in Sarajevo the first day we were there and I truly believe that our problems stem from that.  You think before we left Germany they gave us all the shots we required--so why did we need one the day we got to Sarajevo.  One thing is almost none of us were scared the whole time in Sarajevo--and aside from the guys that were in WW2 or Korea or now in Afghanistan--we saw the same shit--we lived through a war--although we were not allowed to fire.  And I would bet that a good % of the guys that come home from A will go on to live lives fuller than mine.  I am really pissed off that I am now screwed up and I cant accept the reason the DVA is giving us.  Sure its good to get money but I would rather have my health again.

I wish all the guys from Afghanistan the best but in the next few years please pass on how many guys had to leave the army because of PTSD.  By us it wasent normal and I truly think the army did something wrong with us there.  A rough estimate is that from all the guys that went on our tour at least 50% are now screwed and thats sad.

Dave
« Last Edit: February 23, 2007, 02:09:21 PM by dave » Report to moderator   Logged
Mike Blais
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Re: Yugoslavia 1992 3RCR N-coy
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2007, 04:27:30 PM »
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What do you think was in the needle, Dave? The one they gave you when you hit the ground? I feel for you, buddy, in reference to the answers you are getting. And the lack of professional help that would undoubtedly ease your burden. Freaking bs....
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1RCR  1977-79  Depot (Italy PL), B Coy, Mortars, Pioneers, D Coy (CFB London)
3RCR  1979-82  M Coy, Pipes & Drums, Sigs, Mortars. (CFB Baden-Soellingen)
1RCR  1982-88  Mortars. Dukes, Cyprus-Welfare NCO 84-85, Injured, WO&Sgts Mess, (CFB London)
1988-92 Med-remuster to HELL/ 35 DU, CFB Baden
1992 Medical release. God Bless you all! 

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Mary Ann Peace
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Re: Yugoslavia 1992 3RCR N-coy
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2007, 04:41:01 PM »
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Hi
WO Mike Peace set an inquiry in place before he passed away.  He also had PTSD along with other symptoms.  I was surprised to see a post Yugo 1992, yet angry because there are soldiers still suffering from that SDA. 
Where was everybody 6 years ago when the inquiry was held?  I had a few people come forward but no one really knew why they were sick.  You must have read about it in the papers.  I worked on this mess trying to find answers and i did find answers.  The conclusiions have made a remarkable difference for the soldiers.  I have and still am working on tyring to finding answers for those who served in Yugo 1992-1995 and those after also.  It seems Bosnia was forgotten.  I made the promise to see it to the finish and I havent crossed that line yet.    N coy, J coy or whoever was over there in Bosnia - Balkan Syndrome.  yes, it is a shame about Mike Sullivan and Rick.  That is why we must Support our Troops who are in Afghanistan, Bob Girouard RSM a loss who will be missed by many, and all the other soldiers who have died will all be missed terribly by friends, family and co-workers.  Hang in there!
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Re: Yugoslavia 1992 3RCR N-coy
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2007, 04:52:39 PM »
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Well Dave, a very good recollection for us all, and thanks for sharing. I left the military in 89, so did not go to many places i am sure i would have had i stayed in. I can not even imagine what might have been in the needle. Was there any communicable diseases going ther at the time? I would think anything necssary would have been given in the sausage machine before going over..This is strange. It is not strange that so many of you and your buds suffer from stress related injury,. The exoerts now know that there is more stress for people who DO NOT have a right to defend themselves, ie ,shoot back. It wears on ones brain, how ,i do not understand. I do feel for you and hope you can manage some semblance of decent life. I believe it might get a bit better as time goes on, with proper treatment. I t brings to mind todays settlement with Mr Arar, and i do not begrudge him a thing... but it is a real comparison to amounts being received by wounded soldiers and spouses of dead soldiers.Again it boggles the mind that our soldiers and vets  seem to mean so little to this country. Now as you say , money helps but your health is most important, and that is true, but... down the road ,decent funding will come in handy. That is now being missed by thousands who have been injured or wounded on duty, whether overseas or not....a bullet, a bomb, whatever is the same wherever and does the same damage, both physical and pyschologically, which also affects physical health. I wonder what others think about all this?? ranrad
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Mike Blais
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Re: Yugoslavia 1992 3RCR N-coy
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2007, 12:47:14 PM »
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early 8,800 Canadian veterans living with operational stress injuries
 
By Max Harrold
Montreal Gazette

Wednesday, January 31, 2007

MONTREAL — Walking onto a field to relieve himself, Yvan Poisson feels a crunch underfoot. To his horror, it’s a human skeleton.
“I can’t believe I just stepped through a man’s thorax,” he says. “Then, I wake up. It’s a dream.
“But that really happened to me.”
Poisson, 46, a retired air traffic controller with the Canadian Forces, has the dream nearly every night. He experienced the event for real in 1994 while serving in Rwanda during a three-month deployment to restore operations at the airport in Kigali.
His memories haunt him.
They have caused him to drink too much, slip into deep depressions and quit his job.
Poisson is a broken man, one of 8,793 Canadian veterans currently living with operational stress injuries, including depression, anxiety and post-traumatic stress disorder, which is characterized by aggression, insomnia, flashbacks and drug and alcohol abuse. Untreated, people with PTSD can become suicidal and dangerous to others.
Since 2002, there has been a startling 411-per-cent increase in the number of veterans diagnosed with operational stress injuries.
The spike in OSI cases is being reported mainly by veterans who served in Canada’s United Nations peacekeeping missions during the 1990s — in Bosnia, Somalia, Rwanda and the Middle East.
A delayed reaction to the torture and killings they witnessed during their deployment is typical, and helps explain the rise in the number of cases reported now, years after the traumatic incidents, said Lt.-Col. Errol Villeneuve, the Canadian Forces’ senior staff officer for mental health.
As for the military’s current mission in Afghanistan, the deaths of 36 soldiers and one diplomat there last year — the bloodiest year for the military in more than half a century — does not necessarily foretell a new wave of psychologically scarred soldiers from the war-torn country.
Villeneuve said the deployment in Afghanistan is different from peacekeeping missions because this time, the soldiers can fight back. This removes a sense of helplessness many soldiers have felt in the past, Villeneuve said.
But Stephane Guay, director of the trauma study centre at the Louis H. Lafontaine Hospital, is not convinced that being armed reduces the threat of personal injury, a central cause of PTSD.
“Just because you can shoot a weapon doesn’t mean you won’t be harmed,” Guay said.
Canada is now better prepared to welcome traumatized soldiers home.
In April 2006, the New Veterans Charter came into effect. The most sweeping changes to be made to veterans’ benefits in more than 50 years, the charter is designed to ensure the needs of veterans and their families are met. New programs are being implemented to help veterans get better access to counselling, rehabilitation and mental-health care.
By 2009, the Canadian Forces and Veterans Affairs expect to double their mental health staff — psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, addiction counsellors and psychiatric nurses — to 475 across Canada, Villeneuve said. The number of clinics will also grow, from 10 to 13.
Leading the government’s mission to combat operational stress injuries is the Ste. Anne Centre in Ste. Anne de Bellevue, Que. The centre is an outpatient clinic for about 330 local veterans and soldiers whose average age is 39, said Raymond Lalonde, the centre’s director.
They come for counselling and support meetings. Veterans’ family members can also receive treatment at the facility.
Opened in 2001, the Ste. Anne Centre sets treatment standards and co-ordinates research for OSI patients at five clinics nationwide. The network includes out-patient clinics run by the federal Veterans Affairs Department in four public hospitals in Calgary, Winnipeg, London, Ont., and Quebec City.
The centre’s leadership role stems from its place within the 475-bed Ste. Anne’s Veterans Hospital, the only remaining hospital operated by the Veteran Affairs department.
Romeo Dallaire, the retired Canadian general and Liberal senator, said he sees the Ste. Anne Centre as a symbol of the change of attitude taking shape within the military and veterans’ health care systems.
“We’re light years ahead of where we were 10 years ago,” Dallaire said.
The former commander of the ill-fated UN peacekeeping mission in Rwanda said he is monitoring the implementation of the veterans charter and carefully watching the Conservative government’s handling — and financing — of it.
Dallaire, who brought PTSD out of the shadows and into the national spotlight by recounting his personal battle with PTSD, openly detailing his feelings of guilt, depression and thoughts of suicide after the Rwandan mission, said soldiers and veterans are now made aware of the psychological traumas they might take home from the field.
PTSD “is a sickness and it eats you up,” Dallaire said. “We’re killing ourselves and our families if we don’t deal with it. What we live is an injury. We have to build a prosthesis to pull us through so we can live again.”

Three patients at the Ste. Anne Centre recently shared their stories with the Montreal Gazette to help raise awareness about the debilitating effects of post traumatic stress disorder.

For nine months in 1993, Dejardin was chief of the United Nations Liaison Office in the Gaza Strip, an area now controlled by the Palestinian Authority. His job was to escort UN personnel through various parts of the territory. Dejardin’s wasn’t armed, but he encountered danger nearly everywhere.
“There were daily occurrences of the Israeli Defence Forces (who then controlled the territory) confronting the Intifada, which was basically a lot of young (Palestinian) rebels making trouble for the Israelis by shouting at them, writing slogans on the walls and throwing rocks and bottles at them,” Dejardin said.
“We would be driving along and we would spot a crowd of kids in the street. We would stop and hear the IDF shout at them to disperse. When they didn’t, the Israelis would fire on them,” Dejardin recalled. “One time, I saw a baby, about 18-months-old, get shot. He was in the crowd on the street among the other kids. I rushed over and held him in my arms. An Israeli officer came over and told me to move away. He said this was now a closed military area so I had to leave. There was nobody to give the baby to.
“I had to put the baby down, right there in the street.”
After retiring, “I was kind of a Robin Hood and I wanted to convince my family and friends how one-sided the conflict was. I must have been a real pain in the ass, because I realize (now) both sides in the conflict have their problems. I kept talking about it. I made reports to my bosses at the UN. Nothing. They just told me to be happy I was back here safe and to let others take care of it. My wife and I separated three months after I got back. I became very angry. I started to drink and escape with alcohol. I would often dream about holding a child in my arms, but the child was made of sand.”
Dejardin worked for the army training soldiers using computer-simulated war games until 2002. Dejardin realized he had a recurring short-temper, especially when he drank too much, and he still had nagging thoughts of what he could have done differently in Gaza.
“I got into trouble,” he says, slapping his fist with his hand. “I nearly hit my (new) wife and things got out of hand.”
“I’ve been seeing a psychologist about once a week since 2004, and I meet with a psychiatrist once a month. I took an anger management course. I take eight or nine pills a day, including (an) anti-depressant, a mood stabilizer and a sleeping pill. I’m not completely recovered. But that tough-guy military culture wasn’t helping me. I have to (regularly) talk about it with some other guys like me (in a support group). But besides those nuts, I have no interest in going out and meeting people.”

Arriving on a plane in Mogadishu, Somalia, during that country’s raging civil war in 1993, Thivierge was asked before disembarking if he knew how to handle his rifle.
“I said yes, I’m just a finance clerk but I’ve been to basic training and I know how to shoot. The officer told me to use the end of my rifle to hit people ... when they tried to get up on the truck as we were driving away from the airport.”
Battling Somali warlords would shoot their guns all night to make life difficult for soldiers trying to sleep in Thivierge’s camp that housed 7,000 soldiers from other NATO countries. For the final 21 days of the mission, Thivierge and 150 other Canadian peacekeepers moved to an airstrip surrounded by barbed wire.
“On the last day, we were in our plane for hours waiting for clearance to take off because the Americans were attacking the area from the air. I was just praying our plane wouldn’t get hit. All I know from that time is that everyone causing the problems was black, and that’s when I started to become racist.”
Thivierge admits he still struggles with lingering resentment.
“I know the (black) people I see here are probably not from over there, but I don’t know for sure.”
Upon his return to Canada in 1993, Thivierge worked on and off as a finance clerk for the army reserves.
“I had episodes where I would erupt in anger at every little thing. Like if I was painting a door and my girlfriend noticed a small drip (in the paint), I would say: ‘What you mean?’ Like why is she questioning the quality of my work. Then, I would sand the door down like crazy. When you’re military you’re not supposed to have any faults.”
In 2004, Thivierge was diagnosed with PTSD and given medical disability.
On a vacation to Cuba last year, he relapsed into total panic mode, he said.
“I thought I was over in Somalia again. But (now) I keep going to therapy. I’m doing this interview to let other military guys know that it’s OK to ask for help. There’s a stigma over this. I know guys right now who are having many problems with their families and they don’t want to admit they have post-traumatic stress.”

In July 1994, Poisson left on a mission to reopen Kigali Airport in Rwanda. It was a mission he thought would be exciting and fairly simple to accomplish.
“We had three months to clean up the airport, where there had been many people killed during the genocide only seven or eight weeks earlier. We had to find the books telling us about the airspace, get the radios and navigational aids working again and train the locals to deal with much more traffic.”
While he didn’t witness the genocide, he saw its results and lived through its aftermath. The day he arrived, he was cleaning up a room in the small soccer stadium where his crew of 15 was to be housed. “They had been using the place as a morgue until the week before. There was blood and bodily remains. There were rats that were so big I was really impressed by their size. My first thought was: ‘How am I going to live here for months without ever taking off my boots.’ It was really disgusting.” Kigali had been a thriving city of one million, Poisson said. Now, there were about 10,000 left alive. Driving the 15 kilometres between the stadium and the airport, he saw bones and dismembered bodies piled like litter along the side of the roads.
When he returned from Rwanda in 1994, he felt energized.
“I went back to school and got requalified within months of being back in Canada. I felt so lucky and thankful to be here.”
Poisson returned to his work as an air traffic controller on various Canadian Forces bases. But he soon started to feel unlucky paranoid.
“I was working in Nova Scotia when Swissair flight 111 crashed into the Atlantic Ocean (in 1998). The hangar behind the tower was used as the morgue. Then, I was on a base in Egypt on Sept. 11, 2001. We were locked down on the base and it was very tense for about three weeks.”
In 2003, Poisson was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder. Since then, he has been seeing a therapist and attending support group meetings.
“I’ve learned to live with these things that I’ve seen. I avoid triggers like crowds and any altercation because my fuse is extremely short. I double and triple lock the doors.”
Poissant says he does not regret his military career, but he realizes now that he should have sought psychological treatment earlier, or left the service.
“When you go to the recruiting centre, before you even have your first hair cut yet, you do an allegiance to the Queen and to her descendants. In other words, I will do as I’m told. I give you an oath that I will carry out the mission you give me. And the day you’re not able to fulfill that part of the contract is the day you have to get out.”

For more information call 1-866-522-2122 or visit www.vac-acc.gc.ca or visir www.osiss.ca
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1RCR  1977-79  Depot (Italy PL), B Coy, Mortars, Pioneers, D Coy (CFB London)
3RCR  1979-82  M Coy, Pipes & Drums, Sigs, Mortars. (CFB Baden-Soellingen)
1RCR  1982-88  Mortars. Dukes, Cyprus-Welfare NCO 84-85, Injured, WO&Sgts Mess, (CFB London)
1988-92 Med-remuster to HELL/ 35 DU, CFB Baden
1992 Medical release. God Bless you all! 

Pro Patria
ranrad
Ron [Andy] Andrews
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Re: Yugoslavia 1992 3RCR N-coy
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2007, 05:16:11 PM »
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Thats where its at with the Gov and Vet, Aff.  I myself am more than disgusted with them. They live by a principle other than "take care of the veteran in need. They are very quick to say NO... very seldom say yes and a big change is needed . I wonder if the Aud Gen is due to audit them .They need a very thorough one , and im sure a lot of discrepancies will be found. Then maybe we will see changes that will help the veteran. I feel vet aff is running an emploment agency instead of help for the veteran. I guess they figure they can get a big chunk of the $ 30 35 Billion surplus by "stealing it this way , making jobs doing nothing. I know of one lady who worked there for 13 yrs and quit when she realized she was spinning her wheels, and doing next to nothing for any veteran. Yes ,i agree with what has been said here, and thank you Mike for getting it up. Only by getting these things up here are we ever going to get changes. I wish all the best to all out there who have done their duty, and are now abandoned.. rember, you have brothers and sisters out here...aand dont let the Bas***** win... you deserve better.. hang in there.. it HAS to get better. ranrad
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Abe Doney
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james_doney@hotmail.com
Re: Yugoslavia 1992 3RCR N-coy
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2007, 07:20:47 AM »
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Here's a good site to go to:  veteranvoice.info
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