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Topic: Danger Pay in action areas. (Read 303 times)
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george burrows
redpatch43
Veteran 100+ Member
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Posts: 195
2002
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I have been reading a lot lately about this subject, and it disturbes me very much.
My feeling is that when a soldier has been injured in action areas, He is taken out of the line to hospital for care. The philosophy of CUTTING OFF DANGER PAY is very relevant to the situation at hand.A line must be drawn. I would agree with this philosophy AS LONG AS a substitute benefit programme was IMMEDIATELY forthcoming to the soldier concerned. I think that the Dep't. of Veterans affairs has to immediately step into the breach, take over the case at hand and care for the slodier properly. For examaple, if a soldier has been wounded to an extent of 75% damage to his body, then and INTERUM PENSION BASED UPON 75% should immediately be paid to him / or her. for a fixed period of one year or whatever depending upon the severrity of injury and handicapped capbilities. At the end of the that period, his interum pension should then be set at the permanent level or extent of injury for the rest of this life.. I think everyone will agree that while it would be nice to carry on with the danger pay for life, the end result may cause a tremendous amount of friction among veterans who were severely wounded as opposed to those who were only slightly wounded and were able to return to work back home The playing field would then NOT BE EVEN FOR ALL.
In addition , the Politicans would not like it, because they prefer to spend it on themselves and friends ec.
Lets keep our fingers crossed for a GOOD RESULT forn our new Defense Minister. Our boy's certainly deserve it.
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ranrad
Ron [Andy] Andrews
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Well George, great idea here, guess it took the experiences of a WW2 vet to come up with an amiable solution. How about you fire that off in an email to the Min of Defence and Min of Vet Aff. Thye may not have thought of this. IOt sounds very plausible and more fair to all , and especially the wounded , who SHOULD BE the first importance here. Thanks George, good stuff, ranrad
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RCAF,CAF, converted RCR?,1RCR 74-77 CD: SSM (Nato);CPSM,;UN-Cyp.; UN- Golan
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Gary Carleton
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To All Military Bro. A Military benifit in a militrive active zone with or without injures is a soilder warent of benifits. Gary C
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BJ MacLean
B.J. / Rusty
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To all
The part of this that bothers me the most is that the soldier loses benefits after removal from battle area. However a CDN Sailor get sea pay once posted to a ship even if the ship is not sailing and they keep the benefit for 6 months after a posting ashore. Who should keep such benefits? the sailor or soldier.? Well the answer should be plane ...The soldier.
When I heard what the government was doing to the troops I was MOTIFIED.
BJ
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B.J. MacLean
35 Yrs
Always a Proud Royal
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Dave Brydon
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The following is just for informational purposes - the site is:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6&Section=205.39&sidecat=22&Chapter=205#205.39
Army:
205.39 - FIELD OPERATIONS ALLOWANCE
(1) (Definition) In this instruction, "field operation" means an operation ordered by the Chief of the Defence Staff or a field exercise or training exercise carried out under the authority of National Defence Headquarters or an officer commanding a command, formation, base or unit, in which an officer or non-commissioned member is required to live under field conditions for a period of not less than 24 consecutive hours, but does not include a survey operation.
(2) (Eligibility) Subject to paragraph (3), an officer or non-commissioned member is entitled, when on duty on a field operation away from the permanent facilities normally occupied at the member’s base or other unit or element, to
a. $17.76 for each complete 24-hour period of that duty; and
b. $17.76 for any remaining period of that duty that is of six or more hours duration.
(3) (Limitations) An officer or non-commissioned member
a. is not entitled to Field Operations Allowance when the member is entitled to Joint Task Force 2 Allowance under CBI 205.385 or on adventure training;
b. Repealed (CDS effective 23 July 03)
c. who is on temporary duty and entitled to Field Operation Allowance, is not entitled to incidentals under paragraph (5) of CBI 209.30 (Travelling Expenses - Conditions and Entitlements) while in receipt of Field Operation Allowance.
==================================================
Navy
205.35 - SEA DUTY ALLOWANCE
(1) (Definition) In this instruction, "eligible service" means any period during which the officer or non-commissioned member was
a. posted to a submarine that was not in refit or a ship;
b. serving in a sea-going position designated by the Minister for the purpose of this instruction;
c. posted to the Joint Task Force 2 in a sea-going position designated by the Chief of the Defence Staff for the purpose of CBI 205.385 (Joint Task Force 2 Allowance); or
d. posted to a position designated by the Chief of the Defence Staff for the purpose of CBI 205.385 and was serving in a sea-going position.
(2) (Eligibility) Subject to paragraph
(3), an officer or non-commissioned member posted to a ship, other than a submarine, or serving in a sea-going position designated by the Minister for the purpose of this instruction, is entitled to Sea Duty Allowance at the appropriate monthly rate set out in the table to this instruction for the member's accumulated eligible service, unless the member is in receipt of Joint Task Force 2 Allowance under CBI 205.385.
(3) (Limitation) An officer or non-commissioned member who is posted to a Fleet Diving Unit, a ship or a tender that is attached to the Fleet Diving Unit is not entitled to Sea Duty Allowance.
TABLE TO CBI 205.35
YEARS OF ACCUMULATED ELIGIBLE SERVICE MONTHLY RATE
less than 5 years $274
5 years or more $391
9 years or more $506
12 years or more $612
15 years or more $651
18 years or more $692
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"I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom."
-George Patton
Pro Patria
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george burrows
redpatch43
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2002
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Thanks to all who replied to the above. There are some good thoughts put out here. I have to agree with most of the comments but as I stated in the article what our WANTS are does not necessarily always meet our needs. That is why I felt a more fair and equitable solution should be found to be fair to everyone. I agree it is not fair for the Navy to draw their Danger pay when still tied upt the dock, while on board the ship. As a matter of fact I cannot see why the Navy draws a DANGER PAY AT ALL during peacetime whether at sea not unless it enters A SO CALLED DESIGNATED Danger area such as the Med near Iraq or Iran areas. I mean no offence to the Navy guys. But agaian fair is fair. If your NOT IN ACTION IN A DANGER AREA, your not entitled to DANGER PAY.
I would like to suggest that everyone who has read the original message I sent should do as RAN RAD suggests. Everybody copy my siggestion and E MAIL IT D.N.D. DEFENCE Minister O'Connor, Prime Minister Harper and a few others it may influence a better result.
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Mike Blais
SSM (NATO Bar), CPSM, UN-Cyp, CD
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A ROYAL CANADIAN "NEVER PASSES A FAULT"
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George they give the navy boys money just so they will muster the nuggets to get on the boat...... nyuck nyuck nycuk
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1RCR 1977-79 Depot (Italy PL), B Coy, Mortars, Pioneers, D Coy (CFB London)
3RCR 1979-82 M Coy, Pipes & Drums, Sigs, Mortars. (CFB Baden-Soellingen)
1RCR 1982-88 Mortars. Dukes, Cyprus-Welfare NCO 84-85, Injured, WO&Sgts Mess, (CFB London)
1988-92 Med-remuster to HELL/ 35 DU, CFB Baden
1992 Medical release. God Bless you all!
Pro Patria
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george burrows
redpatch43
Veteran 100+ Member
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2002
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Mike , you are SO RIGHT. They have to something to get them out of their HAMMOCKS.
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Mike Blais
SSM (NATO Bar), CPSM, UN-Cyp, CD
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A ROYAL CANADIAN "NEVER PASSES A FAULT"
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George, tell me about your trip to war by sea in... geeez, what year would have that been? What kind of ship was it and what was it like knowing the uboats lurked anywhere east of Newfoundland. The trip through the med must have been equally daring...
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1RCR 1977-79 Depot (Italy PL), B Coy, Mortars, Pioneers, D Coy (CFB London)
3RCR 1979-82 M Coy, Pipes & Drums, Sigs, Mortars. (CFB Baden-Soellingen)
1RCR 1982-88 Mortars. Dukes, Cyprus-Welfare NCO 84-85, Injured, WO&Sgts Mess, (CFB London)
1988-92 Med-remuster to HELL/ 35 DU, CFB Baden
1992 Medical release. God Bless you all!
Pro Patria
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george burrows
redpatch43
Veteran 100+ Member
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2002
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Hi Mike. The year was 1943 and we were enroute to the INVASION OF SICILY. The trip started at Greenock ,Scotland when we slipped out during the night while we were asleep and found ourselves a sea the following morning. We cruised for two days then changed to Summer Kit and started to enjoy the beautiful sunshine enroute to the Med where we met up the American convoy that joined us. Our days were mostly of leasure, playing cards etc and sunbathing. There were a few lectures during the trip but we could not be taught anymore than we already knew for the invasion. They let us rest up before the big event so we would be in TROOP SHAPE WHEN WE LANDED. It was a good trip really. The porpoises were very numerous in number and wonderful watching them dive in and out of the water all the way from the Spanish coast to the Med. It is AMAZING THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO KEEP UP WITH THE SHIP ON A CONSTANT DAILY BASIS.. Other than the Sub event and the EXTREMELY high 30 foot waves during the night of the proposed landing, it was a rather peaceful trip. Like being on holidays going somewhere. The one thing that stood out most in our minds then was we KNEW A SECRET, WHICH WE WERE PART OF, that the rest of the world did not know AND WOULD NOT FIND OUT ABOUT UNTIL WE INVADED SICILY ON JULY10/43.
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ranrad
Ron [Andy] Andrews
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Well; very interesting and disconcerting to read some of the findings here. Hmm, seems like prferential treatment for navy personnel, but not trying to put down their need of some extra compensation. But i think soldiers wjo are wounded and face months, maybe years of rehab, which hopefully does what they need, deserve something reasonable to allow them to rehab without added stress and strain, for instance ,in most cases these soldiers are in med facilities far from their home base and families. I still need to see something substantial for them to feel okay with our treatment of these heros. Hey George , another great story there, keep em coming.. and Mike, you snowed under down there in lover land??? ranrad
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RCAF,CAF, converted RCR?,1RCR 74-77 CD: SSM (Nato);CPSM,;UN-Cyp.; UN- Golan
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Mike Blais
SSM (NATO Bar), CPSM, UN-Cyp, CD
Ultimate 2000+ Member
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A ROYAL CANADIAN "NEVER PASSES A FAULT"
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No snow here.... twenty minutes away, a foot plus. Go figure.
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1RCR 1977-79 Depot (Italy PL), B Coy, Mortars, Pioneers, D Coy (CFB London)
3RCR 1979-82 M Coy, Pipes & Drums, Sigs, Mortars. (CFB Baden-Soellingen)
1RCR 1982-88 Mortars. Dukes, Cyprus-Welfare NCO 84-85, Injured, WO&Sgts Mess, (CFB London)
1988-92 Med-remuster to HELL/ 35 DU, CFB Baden
1992 Medical release. God Bless you all!
Pro Patria
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Mike Blais
SSM (NATO Bar), CPSM, UN-Cyp, CD
Ultimate 2000+ Member
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Posts: 3836
A ROYAL CANADIAN "NEVER PASSES A FAULT"
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Something that may be of interest....
Coverage gave DND undeserved black eye
By SCOTT TAYLOR
On Target
PTE. JEFFREY HUNTER arrived at the U.S. medical facility in Landstuhl, Germany, on Oct. 5. The 23-year-old soldier is a member of a Royal Canadian Dragoons detachment that was ambushed with rockets and mortars Oct. 3.
At that time, the Dragoons were providing an escort for a road construction crew in the hotly contested Panjawii district outside Kandahar. During the engagement, Hunter’s section commander, Sgt. Craig Gillam, and a comrade, Cpl. Robert Mitchell, were killed and another four Dragoons were wounded. With a shattered leg and severe shrapnel wounds, the badly injured Hunter was stabilized by Canadian Forces medical staff and then hastily airlifted to Landstuhl for surgery.
Within six hours of his arrival in Germany, still drugged and in pain, Hunter was told by Canadian military administrators that, in addition to his physical woes, he would now forfeit about $2,111 per month in operational bonuses. Dubbed "danger pay" by the troops, these allowances are paid in addition to regular salaries while soldiers are posted to front-line hot spots such as Kandahar. Hunter was also advised that his tax-free status was also revoked since he was no longer serving in Afghanistan.
Since 2004, it has been a DND policy not to collect income tax from military personnel serving in war zones. Now that Hunter was safe and sound in a hospital bed outside the zone, his exemption for dangerous duty was no longer deemed applicable. Naturally enough, this young soldier, fearing he might yet lose his leg to infection and still in excruciating pain, felt the Canadian Forces were somehow betraying their commitment to him.
In an emotional phone call home to his father, Bill Hunter, in Aurora, Ont., the private expressed his displeasure at the callous treatment he was receiving. Father Bill immediately contacted the media and within hours the story had been whipped up into a full public outcry.
For months now Canadian citizens have been urged by the military brass to "support our troops" and to stage patriotic displays in order to boost morale in Afghanistan. The national media then reported this private’s story in such a manner that it seemed the young soldier was being punished financially for being wounded by the Taliban.
Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier and Defence Minister Gordon O’Connor found themselves on the receiving end of an ill-informed, hateful public barrage accusing DND of mistreating soldiers injured in the line of duty. Initially, Hillier suggested the matter would be reviewed internally, and it wasn’t until five days later that O’Connor dared to confront this emotional backlash with an explanatory letter to the editor.
While no one can justify the callous bedside manner of the administrators who felt it necessary to inform Hunter of his pay reduction while he was still awaiting medical treatment, the fact is that wounded Canadian soldiers do receive a wide range of additional benefits. In legislation passed last year, service members wounded or killed during operations are entitled to an initial lump sum payment of up to $250,000 plus a sliding scale of monthly payments intended as a loss of income compensation. Furthermore, all soldiers are required to purchase insurance policies that extensively cover rehabilitation and re-education costs. If the injury requires a medical discharge, Veterans Affairs Canada has an entire range of benefits and support programs available.
To report that Hunter’s danger pay was stopped when he was flown out of Afghanistan (as it should be), without detailing the other financial compensation to which he is entitled to after being wounded, was irresponsible journalism. In this particular instance the public was whipped up into a frenzy over nothing, and DND got a black eye it did not deserve.
However, what this particular story did illustrate was just how relatively well remunerated our troops are while they serve in Kandahar. With the tax breaks and danger pay, even a reserve non-commissioned officer can expect to take home about $7,000 a month — which amounts to a tidy little $42,000 nest egg at the end of a six-month tour.
And just to put this into regional perspective, even with the renewed illegal opium trade artificially inflating the Afghan economy, the UN estimates the average household income in Afghanistan to be about $1,200 per year.
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1RCR 1977-79 Depot (Italy PL), B Coy, Mortars, Pioneers, D Coy (CFB London)
3RCR 1979-82 M Coy, Pipes & Drums, Sigs, Mortars. (CFB Baden-Soellingen)
1RCR 1982-88 Mortars. Dukes, Cyprus-Welfare NCO 84-85, Injured, WO&Sgts Mess, (CFB London)
1988-92 Med-remuster to HELL/ 35 DU, CFB Baden
1992 Medical release. God Bless you all!
Pro Patria
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ranrad
Ron [Andy] Andrews
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Boy o Boy, i would have thought coverage of this from Scott Taylor would not be so, shall i say, pro gov side, as this seems to me.. i guess we dont think these soldiers have bills at home, ie, rent , mortgage, food ,clothing utilities to look after their families... man o man, how much does that take of the $7000 ?? A good chunk i think, so , so much for that $42000 nest egg, and even for a new single soldier , he /she may still have all of the aformentioed.. but lets say no, the he/she may get along over there relatively inexpensive, only to be crippled or worse, how far does that $40000 odd go now Scott, and why should that young soldier be using it to get back on his feet??? Hmmm, Go back to the drawing board and get with the reality of today... thanks for the info Mike, it is no wonder there has not been some ongoing compensation that starts when the "danger pay " stops.. or if there is i do not see it here... sorry, Gov. start again and see if you can come up with something positive for these guys/gals who put their all on the line for us, ranrad
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RCAF,CAF, converted RCR?,1RCR 74-77 CD: SSM (Nato);CPSM,;UN-Cyp.; UN- Golan
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george burrows
redpatch43
Veteran 100+ Member
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2002
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Hey ranrad and Mike I agree that the SHOCK of pay loss on your sick ( or potential DEATH BED) is pretty rough appreciation of a severe wound in battle. I new the DND used to be tough to get along with, but thought they had grown up a little as well as soften up a bit. From you say, I guess I was wrong.
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